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[Responded] Is the Heavy Armor Innate skill Hard Headed properly implemented

Discussion in 'Combat, Skills, & Magic' started by Griffler, Sep 4, 2019.

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  1. Griffler

    Griffler Avatar

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    09/04/2019 16:33
    Title: Is the Heavy Armor Innate skill Hard Headed properly implemented
    Reproduction Rate: Still formulating a response
    Blocker? 42
    Details: If we had more access to QA I could test this more thoroughly but from what I can recall when I trained this skill up, I did so purely from being fed up of getting stunned by critters Significally below my abilities. After GMing the skill and above I could not tell a perceivable difference. With trying full light armor vs heavy armor seems to be no different and in K'rul's monkey room two individuals, one with light and one with heavy armor will get stunned simultaneously. Bolster Balance under the Shield tree seems to work properly, but am unable to verify the correct implementation of Hard Headed at the moment.
    Steps to Reproduce: Enter combat with mobs whom stun that are significantly below your adv level, take stuns like nobodies business. K'rul Shock Monkey's or UT Melee Skellies for example. I will follow up with 100 hit metric on light vs heavy armor while in pvp when time permits.
    SotA.Win.64.1034.Date.08.30.19
    Debug: UE9UX2Rlc2VydF9tZXRyb3BvbGlzXzAxYl90ZW1wbGF0ZXxSaW56YWl8KDE3Ljk5LCAzOC41NjYsIDEzNC43MjIpfCgwLCAtMC4xMDksIDAsIDAuOTk0KXwzNDcuNDg0MXwxMHwyLjIx
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2019
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  2. wizardsmoke

    wizardsmoke Dev Emeritus Dev Emeritus

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    Hard Headed is working as intended. Hard Headed and Bolster Balance each increase your Stun Resistance, which reduces that chance that you will be stunned by an attack that has a stun effect.
     
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  3. Turk Key

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    This needs to be checked. There was a big change two releases ago. I have bugged it both times with no response. The issue has been additionally discussed in other postings. With 104 hard headed skill and 121 adv level, it is hard to believe this is as intended when a level 3 cultist fighter stuns you every time. @wizardsmoke
     
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  4. Griffler

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    @wizardsmoke

    I'm working on a metric at the moment with Shimizu.. I'm dodging hits and still getting stunned for one.

    She has a 60% chance to stun and of that I have a 25% chance to avoid stun, and its looking overwhelmingly broke.
     
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  5. Griffler

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  6. Turk Key

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    Keeping fingers crossed that our loved dev has not crossed this off his list (referencing response above).
     
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  7. Griffler

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    I'll start a new thread with my metrics results.
     
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  8. By Tor

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    I am GM'ed in both Hard Headed and the other skill that reduces stun (can't recall the name). Like the above posters, I've noticed that I'm getting stunned as often as I was before I ever added either of these skills to my avatar.
     
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  9. Griffler

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    At this point in my metric I've actually taken LESS stuns in Light Armor then Heavy Armor.
     
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  10. Barugon

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    I bugged this last release and the bug report was totally ignored.
     
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  11. Anpu

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    Could it be the creatures Stun skill is bugged and ignoring Hard Headed?
     
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  12. Griffler

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    3 releases in a row for me
     
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  13. wizardsmoke

    wizardsmoke Dev Emeritus Dev Emeritus

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    I am taking another look at this.

    Issue #65635
     
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  14. Griffler

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    I'll have my metrics compiled for you this evening. I've gone through light and heavy armor with Shimizu using Crushing Blow, and am now with Scoffer using Body Slam.
     
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  15. Griffler

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    I'm now wondering if maybe Hard Headed is working properly, and Crushing Blow is an issue. But still, dodging and getting stunned from the same hit I dont think is proper.

    More data to come.
     
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  16. wizardsmoke

    wizardsmoke Dev Emeritus Dev Emeritus

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    @Griffler

    I have created issue #65636 to review the dodge + stun issue that you identified.
     
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  17. Griffler

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    09/05/2019 21:09
    Title: Hard Headed PvP metrics
    Reproduction Rate: It's pretty boring, wouldn't recommend(resists reproduction jokes). Rinzai has taken the burden for you, praise RNGesus.
    Blocker? 42
    Details: Good ol fashion butt whoppin in the name of Data.
    Steps to Reproduce: See Below
    SotA.Win.64.1035.Date.09.04.19
    Area: POT_desert_metropolis_01b_template/Rinzai
    Area Display Name: Rinzai
    Loc: (16.7, 38.6, 130.1)
    Debug: UE9UX2Rlc2VydF9tZXRyb3BvbGlzXzAxYl90ZW1wbGF0ZXxSaW56YWl8KDE2LjY3MSwgMzguNTY2LCAxMzAuMSl8KDAsIDAuODY2LCAwLCAwLjQ5OSl8MTAyLjM1NHwyNC45ODUwN3w0LjEwNDc1

    Disclaimer:
    I'm neither a Mathologist or Rocket Surgeon.

    TL;DR
    Taking into consideration the recently recognized issue #65636(dodge+stun), and recognizing SotaMathâ„¢, one could assume Hard Headed is working properly and that the perceived frustration is due to the possibility a significant adventure level disparity is not part of the equation and a discussion on matters thereof may need to be had. Once removing the factor of potential bugged dodge+stuns the chance to resist a stun based on the Hard Headed skill is in the ballpark for PvP.

    Setup:
    Griffler: Hard Headed lvl 102 = +25.5% Stun Resistance wearing only Chest Armor, no buffs.
    Shimizu: Crushing Blow lvl 100 = +60% Chance to stun... Stunner lvl 100 = +81.3% Bludgeon Stun Effectiveness using a Weapon Merchant purchased Mace and no other equipment, no buffs.
    Scoffer Kada: Body Slam lvl 100 = +100% Chance to stun... wearing only Chest Armor, no buffs.

    After each use of either Crushing Blow or Body Slam the Crowd Control buff expired before next use and due to this our dataset was half what we originally wanted but extrapolation is possible. If a larger dataset, logs, additional skill level details or workbooks will assist please let me know; I simply ask you put in a good word with RNGesus, all hail. I will run these again after the dodge + stun issue is addressed.

    Shimizu Vs Griffler
    Heavy Armor: Total of 50 Crushing Blow attacks
    Dodge: 2
    Dodge + Stun: 4
    Hit w/no Stun: 10
    Stun: 34
    Light Armor: Total of 50 Crushing Blow attacks
    Dodge: 1
    Dodge + Stun: 2
    Hit w/no Stun: 11
    Stun: 36

    Scoffer Kada vs Griffler
    Heavy Armor: Total of 50 Body Slam attacks
    Dodge: 1
    Dodge + Stun: 0
    Hit w/no Stun: 11
    Stun: 38
    Light Armor: Total of 26 Body Slam attacks(BSOD on 27th body slam.. @Scoffer rocked my world)
    Dodge: 1
    Dodge + Stun: 3
    Hit w/no Stun: 0
    Stun: 22


    There are a number of questions generated from this dataset while answering some as well. The immersion break of having a mob 100 adventure levels below yours able to inflict stun is real and frustrating, could we discuss adventure level being taken into account when calculating stun chance?

    Thank you for your continued dedication @Devs and for your attention to the subject @wizardsmoke !
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2019
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  18. wizardsmoke

    wizardsmoke Dev Emeritus Dev Emeritus

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    Thanks for all of the reports and testing! :)

    I have found an issue with Crushing Blow and Body Slam (likely affects other stun effects as well) that caused the chance to stun to be increased. This will be fixed for Release 70.

    @Griffler I have created issue #65640 to review/consider use of relative Adventure Level for stun chance calculation.
     
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  19. Barugon

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    What about effects like stun being applied even when dodged?
    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...effects-are-still-applied-when-dodged.157978/
     
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  20. Griffler

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