very disapointed with the continued Archery nerfs

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Fenrus MacRath, Sep 11, 2019.

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  1. Pawz

    Pawz Avatar

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    Archery seems fine to me. It's not insanely op anymore but still does a lot of damage.
     
  2. Sara Dreygon

    Sara Dreygon Avatar

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    • According to some I kill mobs relatively fast
    • I see Girlsname using this tactic killing 2 mobs to my 1 and slaughtering the spider queen am in awe and think it is hilarious... but still OP
    • To experience how OP it was myself - as Mac wanted to - I could have re-spec'd into charged shot archery - as Mac did - and put an additional 1B XP into that build to show hot OP is was - once again, as Mac did. However, my outcome would have been the same as Mac's i.e. it is extremely OP. I didn't have to experience it myself to see... I could just see.
    • I've been nerfed multiple times since 2013 and have taken all in stride. You're a highly respected player and far from a one-trick pony so I have every confidence you'll find another trick eventually
     
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  3. oynx

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    All I can say is that after months of training with range spec 110 and base 142, crit hits of 8, 10 and 12 is pitiful. It just isn't fun anymore ....
     
  4. Sara Dreygon

    Sara Dreygon Avatar

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    Hmmm... was playing with a few archers the other night and they were still popping off pretty sexy crits with charged attack. 800ish easy. Can't see I saw any 8's.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
  5. Cordelayne

    Cordelayne Bug Hunter

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  6. Lazlo

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    I'm not knowledgeable enough about ranged to say much about it, but I do think that a lot of balance related headaches could be mitigated by spending some more time on balancing the PvE environment itself.

    When people compare archetypes, they rightfully look at the ceilings of those archetypes. Even if two archetypes are perfectly equal vs. a training dummy, if the environment where they fight is uneven, one of them can be much more powerful than the other. The spider queen fight is a good example of a very unbalanced environment. Mega hard hitting, mega resistant, mega hp mob in a room with a ton of other mobs with infinitely stacking poison procs...but you can just run around in circles all day shooting arrows at the boss. That's pretty bad design, and it makes it hard to prevent strong players from being OP without making normals doing normal stuff in normal environments weaker than they need to be. This is just one example among many.

    I think it's good that there is variety in the game, and I like that player types are better in some places than others, but having environments that are tailor made for certain builds is not a great idea. Everything that's meant to be challenging should be challenging to everyone, even if some things are better than others.
     
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  7. Curse2

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    Addressed to nobody in particular.

    Girlsname is a great example of an archer, who is playing WOW these days; and has not even logged into SOTA in the last 2 days.

    Refer to my comment about Fat, Dumb, and Happy. Maybe I should have added Clueless to the short list of attributes, and willing to make things up that they they have no direct knowledge of but nonetheless appoint themselves as judge and jury over. Those might be the sort of people that caused this to happen, just sayin!

    This is like the old fable where the farmer chases a rat around in his corn field all day, trying to keep him out of the corn; only to find out when he returns to his senses that he has destroyed all of his corn by trampling it in the grand rat chase.

    And I thought Envy was the name of a Bow in SOTA?
     
  8. Aetrion

    Aetrion Avatar

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    I think the main reason why archery is so ubiquitous is because it scales well as you progress through the game. It's not like magic where you start out awful, by the time you hit GM you're somewhere between sad and meh, but when you add +150 attunement from items you turn into a weapon of mass destruction all in one go. With archery you start out pretty good, you continue to get better, and it just kind of grows with your character in a very nice way. People are naturally going to gravitate toward what works for them, so when you have a skill that works early on and continues to work it's going to attract a lot more people than any number of skills that start out pathetic and need top end gear to become truly powerful.
     
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  9. Violet Ronso

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    And you were max charging it? The you shouldn't even see a difference between Before and After last patch...

    Archers with minimal investment (130/115/115 in the damage generating innates) could dish out constant 600-700s every half second by getting berserkers + haste potion while only charging for 2 ticks. Now archers can dish out constant 600-700s every second because they need to charge 5-6 extra ticks (which take 0.18 seconds before attack speed buffs...) to get the same output. Honestly the last patch was a bug fix, not a nerf. EVERYONE who played it this way knew it, but y'all weren't honest enough to call it out...


    Yeah, instead of whacking out you fake max charge every half second, you now need to actually max charge for a whole second, without counting the time to release the attack with the global cooldown, Global cooldown of about 1 second or so, the actual DPS drop is barely noticeable... I just went in the game to test it, and a part from the fact that I need to get the habit of full charging it now (I got used to 2tick charges), I haven't lost any actual damage, just a SLIGHT longer charge time (and barely at that... something like half a second extra)

    For those complaining that last patch was the nail in the coffin for archers, y'all are just complaining that the food isn't good after your 5th serving, this one should not have been a surprise, it was a bug and you abused it instead of reporting it (not looking at you barugon, you were full charging like a dumb dumb :p)
     
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  10. Dhanas

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    This, definitely! Everytime it comes a fix/nerf to archery or fire tree people will start to complain as crazy, just because those 2 are the most used classes in the game, back in time when they fixed rapid fire ( was able to hit trought wall cause it was a dot, and was hitting an arrow more than the design) there were lot of complaints and it was just a bug fix, like the one we have now. Afaik the fix that Chris mentioned in his stream and somewhere in a post in this forum, was regard charged attack: you were able to have same output of dmg charging it at 3 stacks instead of full stacks, this definitely wasn't by design, more charge should mean more dmg, if not what is the purpouse of a 7/8 charge attack?

    I don't understand why no one complained when back in the time they fixed/nerfed Harmstring ( combo of rend+ trip? ) that reduced a lot dps and efficency of sword both in PVE and PVP, same when they given Knight Grace 100% chance to remove all the 3 rends in 1 click; still no one complains cause purify now provide 40 death resistance if stacked instead of 25 like it was used to do, generating a slighty nerf to death in pvp, and so on.

    I don't see ice/air/earth mages complaing cause they can't take down a dragon or cause they can't do pve with their build, as i can't see bludgeon users complaing cause their dps both in pvp and pve is much much less than what other physical dmg schools do.

    In conclusion, even if archery got this fix/nerf, it still remains one of the best class for single target dps PVE, cause most of the PVE contents of this games are easy completed kiting, best kiters with a good dps output, will always be best classes for pve in this game.
     
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  11. Dhanas

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    Talking about the dragon topic, even if you are able to hit him while he's flying with melee skills, while you are doing this, you are getting hitted by huge fireballs and you need to stop your dps to heal, meanwhile the air tactic archer, with his dash stacked 6x, can still hit the dragon while run fast enough to avoid his fireball :)

    Everyone know here that "kiting" dragon and running faster than his fireball is the key to avoid fireball, right?

    Shouldn't dragon be something that needs to be tanked instead of kited? just my thought here
     
  12. Saevio Vehemens

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    Would be nice to see the same amount of xp spent on a given skill tree having similar damage for each skilling. I'm stubborn and not quitting archer, but I suspect this is stage 1 of the larger resetting of all the skills that is coming. Archers were just the start. Mark my words. There won't be a reset, but a gradual reduction across the board.
     
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  13. Brass Knuckles

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    It’s more than archery nerfs, it’s all physical dps is down aka moon got major nerfed on many things apparently meteor shower is mostly physical dps. If your looking for a aoe mage build it’s play fire or nothing no choices now.
     
  14. GMDavros

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    I don't consider the recent patch a nerf at all. bug fix for sure. I suppose my displeasure comes from the combination of things that have occurred recently. Reduce my ability to take damage (air shield), reduce my ability to inflict damage (bug fix, meteor shower nerf, overall damage resistance for mobs) and then expect me to be happy about it.

    (btw, is it me or do my AoE's seem to tick down faster? Meteors seem to be gone much quicker. Also, ghosts. I'm talking green (to me) 300hp ghosts. The damage i do was laughable. Average damage per shot (any shot - charged, aimed, whatever) was about 18. Not so other things, but wow. It's not even worth killing them. I'd spend more in arrow cost than i'd recapture) anyways...

    I'm not a 24hr a day player, nor am i an uber archer. Lvl 115, stats in the 120's, etc. I'd gotten to a place where i could be effective both in groups and solo. I was happy. Now, i'm much less useful both ways.

    So, now i'll play less until the archery skills get a rework. i'd truly love for them to be more useful.

    Fenris
     
  15. Brass Knuckles

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    No there is no improvement to meteors the bug fix to damage resistance is a huge nerf to ms. The tick speed is slow however the tick speed to fire is fast and it’s unaffected by the dr. I’m 151 in meteor shower and fully speced in moon with all the gears my fire is gm with no gear and my fire damage is better every where except dragons and upper tears.

    This is purely meteor shower vrs ring of fire.
     
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  16. GMDavros

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    by patch, i was referring to the bug fixes to charged shots in ranged only. That was bugged and needed to be fixed. Totally agree that the damage resistance patch however is a force reduction multipier. (by design i suppose) but on top of other nerfs it makes me significantly less effective no matter which way i turn to defend myself or inflict damage on a mob.
     
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  17. Pawz

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    There was a bug with creature resistance not doing what it is supposed to do, Chris fixed it. There was also a bug with stacking a skill, Chris fixed it. Ranged and Air shield had issues (not bugs) due mostly to new gear making people able to do things that were never intended. Chris adjusted these so they are more in line with what was intended for game play. Chris was very open and honest about what he was doing and why he was doing it. All MMO's have adjustments when things get crazy out of balance. If anyone can't take the fact that balance will be called for at times in all MMO's then maybe playing MMO's isn't the best hobby for you? :cool:
     
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  18. Violet Ronso

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    But the thing is, this damage resistance nerf on mobs did not only impact Archers, but ALL classes, so not only archers got hit, but only archers are complaining.

    By the way, whoever was talking about Girlsname not playing shroud right now, have you seen him explicitly say he stopped playing because of the nerfs? Because he started playing wow as soon as classic launched, Thus I think it is much more about playing a game for nostalgia than not playing shroud because of the nerfs. Since WoW Classic's launch, the only times I saw him playing shroud was during queue times for wow.
     
  19. Brass Knuckles

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    I don’t disagree that these things needed fixing here is where I might have a issue ms and other things had received nerfs because they were to powerful to the current content now that content just became harder. Should those skill now be balanced up? There are mobs I’m getting 0 point meteor shower ticks on now with 151 ms 112 spec and 236 attunement. An extream example most I do get some damage to 30s and 40s on high end mobs.
     
  20. DavidDC

    DavidDC Programmer Moderator SOTA Developer

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    Enchantment itself is a balance up
     
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