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blocking ladder use in combat

Discussion in 'Release 70 Feedback' started by Alley Oop, Sep 23, 2019.

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  1. Alley Oop

    Alley Oop Bug Hunter Bug Moderator

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    this is fine as a pvp balance thing, but i worry you've not considered the pve effects of the ladder change. offhand, the eight balconies in the owl's head sewer boss room that have skeleton mages on them are only accessible by ladder. can't climb up to get them if they keep knocking you into combat with spells and i'm not sure how much cover they'd get from the balcony wall trying to kill them with ranged attacks from below. ...or the new treehouse battle in ulfheim, where you will now have to kill everything on your current level AND hope you have cover to keep a barbarian from a different level from range attacking you in order to get out of combat to climb the ladder to the next level. some of those ladders have cover, some do not. the barbarian treehouses in sawtooth thicket and its clones definitely have none at all.

    as a melee player i have to go to where the mobs are. if they are up a ladder and can knock me into combat from a distance, they can keep me from ever reaching them. we don't allow mobs to take damage from players they have no way to reach, but we're going to allow players to take damage from mobs they can't reach?

    this will also have a strong effect on player archers who climb battlement ladders to get a height bonus.

    this also has concern for places where you can fall into damaging environments and escape out by climbing ladders/vines. for instance, there's the pit outside valhold castle that requires that; i'm sure that's not the only one.

    can this be controlled by whether the scene is private? that would still allow it to affect pvp in towns and pvp scenes, since they're forced multi.

    failing that, can this be controlled by whether the user is flagged? ...though that would put them at a serious pve disadvantage, and hence discourage flagging. also not ideal.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
  2. Alley Oop

    Alley Oop Bug Hunter Bug Moderator

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    ..even in town pvp it's a problem. the town pirate galleon's lower room is only accessible by ladder. if someone stands on the deck above and casts an aoe, the person in the room cannot leave.
     
  3. Pawz

    Pawz Avatar

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    This could mess up the new Ulfheim. :(
     
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  4. Brass Knuckles

    Brass Knuckles Avatar

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    Right big fail here !!

    in addition consider when I’m in my house on bloodbay and people are dropping meteor shower on my house it’s locking me out while I’m in a safe zone. Many houses have stairs and such as well as as why can’t I enter my basement if they are locked out side the house And the basement is inside?

    Just food for thought if your going to do this I think a blanket adjustment isn’t good enough.
     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2019
  5. Vladamir Begemot

    Vladamir Begemot Avatar

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  6. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    Wow. More changes to aggravate and frustrate players. Good job making the game less fun Portalarium.
     
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  7. amarious

    amarious Avatar

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    Ladders in Pvp zones as well. There's a ladder that's the only way out of a sort of pit that's in the fall, there's 3 ancient obsidian golems in the pit and 2 skele archers looking down into the pit. That's going to be a death trap.
     
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  8. Brass Knuckles

    Brass Knuckles Avatar

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    Bloodbay proper has a whole system built around ladders and elevation
     
  9. Alley Oop

    Alley Oop Bug Hunter Bug Moderator

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    you've built a whole world where the ability to use ladders was assumed in scene construction. you'd have to check and possibly redo every scene to make this viable.
     
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  10. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator Ambassador SOTA Developer

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    Note, the problem with this was it was added 6 months ago but the default was set to allow it. In 95% of the cases it should be on. Using teleporters or ladders to completely escape combat of any kind kind of isn't fun or challenging. There are some cases where it makes game play unintentionally tough. For those, we'll switch them back to be usable when in combat. If this ends up being a bigger problem than expected then we can flip the default back and go clean up the ones that should be or come up with different solution. Let's see how much it breaks. If it breaks more than it fixes, I'll flip it back.
     
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  11. Antrax Artek

    Antrax Artek Avatar

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    What about enabling just ladders to be used in combat if this turns out to be a problem?

    100% agree!
     
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  12. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    How about just enabling it if you're currently flagged PvP?
     
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  13. Dhanas

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    Because of this, as Atos said, escape combat OF ANY KIND isn't fun or challenging, so this is not a fix meant for PVP only.
     
  14. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    So, you're dictating to me what's fun? For the record, I have never used a teleporter to eacape from a mob.
     
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  15. Dhanas

    Dhanas Avatar

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    I am not, i just quoted what Atos said and I agree, in my opinion a game has to be challenging to be fun.
     
  16. Antrax Artek

    Antrax Artek Avatar

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    So should not be a problem for you ;) and probably if you didn't, it means you don't think it's fun
     
  17. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    It is challenging and, in my opinion, this change will only add a layer of frustration.
     
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  18. Antrax Artek

    Antrax Artek Avatar

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    Perhaps to those who have abused its mechanics from a long time yes, but those who have always been frustrated perhaps will breathe a sigh of relief.

    Imagine if while you're fighting a dragon when you almost killed him, he turns around and goes into a basement.
     
  19. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator Ambassador SOTA Developer

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    That is my current plan B. Plan C is just roll it back. QA is about 2 hours from going live with this change, btw.
     
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  20. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    Let me relate my personal experience from the first time I did the love questline. If you disagree at the end then I guess there's nothing for it.

    After fighting my way through Malice (and dying many times), I found myself stuck at this magical barrier. There was a clue about some "missives" that I needed to collect. I couldn't find them. I searched and searched. I died counless times over many days of returning to this place. I did this stubbornly, as I didn't want to just look up the answer. I wanted to figure it out for myself.

    I ultimately caved and looked up the answer. Do you know what it was? I was in combat mode and didn't know that some skelletons were containers. Stupid, right?

    I have a very high tolerance for this game's "quirks" but imagine new players not realizing that they need to click on a teleporter in order to get to the next part of their quest; say something that doesn't look obvious. Do you still think this is a good across-the-board change?
     
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