Recap From SotaCon

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Brass Knuckles, Oct 11, 2019.

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  1. majoria70

    majoria70 Avatar

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    To me taxidermy doesn't sound cool. So we can take our spare pets and make them a stuffed statue. What is so great about that? Many have asked for years to allow placement of more pets so we could have zoos and exhibitions. I have several horses from buying into the mounts but we could not create much of barn with the imposed limits. So then we asked for larger limits in basements and recently dungeons and I believe his was granted on a fairly small increase to the limits. So again I don't see taxidermy as fun. There are many other things I could think of to make some fun. For example agriculture in Archeage now that was interesting and fun to many players. ;)
     
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  2. Xee

    Xee Bug Hunter

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    I do agree, I think in the long run we will have all of this :) most of the issues that present themselves based on information we see is the technical challenges to bring the ideas into the game. well adding more creatures and npc's is not hard it was the performance hits which is why they were capped to being with. just like deco limits on pots were increased once they got stable framerates up past the slide show. As the core systems get more optimized the easy stuff has been added from what I have seen. things will keep getting expanded as Unity does more threading and better optimizations etc. The taxidermy like that of the fish is just really low fruit and was probably only mentioned because its pretty much already there just needs minor change to make it work. We still have fertilizer's and other things coming for agriculture too we know... its just more when... I dont know why we dont have it but could be something technical or could be as simple as its not a priority, or that the person who works on that is already tasked with a bunch of other things so its on a list... hard to say... but as all things in time :)
     
  3. slandrew

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    That seems like an odd stance from someone who appears to have spent so much time and money on this game. I mean no insult, but would you mind answering a few of my questions?

    1. Would you like to see more people actually play the game?

    2. If so, do you want there to be just enough people to kind of fill out the housing in the world or do you want a MASSIVE amount of people?

    3. Do you believe that, on this projects current trajectory, there will be an appeal to the amount of new players you want to see?

    4. Do you believe that the stability of this game is comparable to other games of this genre after 7 years of development?

    5. Aren't you worried that the sale or transfer or whatever it is to a company named "Catnip Games", the resignation of the two Kickstart founders (one of them being the sole reason anyone pledged), the years of stalled development, and the fact that the game was announced nearly 8 years ago and still performs like an alpha in many respects might be indicative of a game that has failed or is destined to fail in the very near future?

    6. If they don't just turn off the servers (Tabula Rasa) but instead let the game linger in its current state ad infinitum, how long do you plan on playing and/or putting money into it?

    Again, no insult intended please do not take it that way. The reason I wanted to ask you these questions is because, while I am no prophet, to me this game seems to be somewhere between dead and dying. Looking through forums elsewhere on the internet, I would not hesitate to say that MOST of the people who pledged on Kickstart are darn near livid - worried they lost all of their money at least. On these forums I see a more measured response with some obvious questions being asked that need to be answered. Reddit is littered with folks who have claimed to have been banned for expressing frustration with the game, so that might be the reason for the calmer response on this forum although I have no idea if that is true or not, or whether they went a step too far to get banned. Anyway, you seem rather peachy about this. I was actually shocked when I read that response. So much so that I wrote this post - I do not get on the forums frequently and never for this kind of discourse. Please let me know if I have grossly misread the situation or your response to it. One final time - please do not take this as an insult or an attack, I am genuinely curious what someone who has spent the amount of money you have on this game and has your attitude thinks. Also, and this just occurred to me, to put my money where my mouth is I will answer my own questions first before putting you on the spot.

    1. Yes

    2. Probably somewhere in between. I don't necessarily think the more the merrier, but I would at least like there to be some reason to say, rent a room.

    3. No. Not at all.

    4. I have played some one off mmorpgs in my day, and this one is surely on par with some of them. Any decent ones that keep my interest for more than a day? Nope.

    5. Yeah, as you could tell from my post - this seems to me the final straw. Could be wrong, but I would like to meet the objective person that wouldn't side with me on that one.

    6. A month - I just subscribed before the news broke haha.
     
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  4. Khal Drogo

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    Ill take a shot at this questions

    Who wouldnt ?
    The more the better .
    I dont know the project trajectory ..do you know it ? Post a link so i can read .
    Post some graphs with other crowdfunded mmos lets compare .
    As a player i dont care who owns the game as long as the lights are/will always be on....rest is just you trying to forecast the weather for months to come.
    Forever.
     
  5. Xee

    Xee Bug Hunter

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  6. slandrew

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    Thank you for responding! I guess I really should have posed the questions to anyone who feels similarly to Rose.

    To clarify, the genre is MMORPG. Source of funds is not a genre - at least not for the purpose of the question.
     
  7. CatherineRose

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    @slandrew

    That seems like an odd stance from someone who appears to have spent so much time and money on this game. I mean no insult, but would you mind answering a few of my questions?


    It does not seem like an odd stance for someone to practice the piano for 10 or more hours a day to be able to be a concert pianist and yet although I was unable to see that dream come true I got my musice degree all because since I WANTed to be one. So I practice at least 10 hours evey day. I was able to play. I was able to go on and get more hours toward a masters. It did not matter to me the amount of time it took. I was not looking to be rich by playing concerts. It was my dream and so I did the best I could to reach it even tho the dream had to change due to unavoidable health issues. So it is with this game. It is a treasure to me.

    2. Would you like to see more people actually play the game?

    Yes , that is part of the dream I have for this game and that is what motivates me. You do not know the community of players as to reasons they may play: to make money? maybe To pass the time and have fun? maybe. Because they have health issues or maybe they have a very stressful homelife or becausse they are lonely or because the are mean and enjoy tearing others down. There are many reasons someone does anything in real life and so it is in this virtual world we call a game.

    3. If so, do you want there to be just enough people to kind of fill out the housing in the world or do you want a MASSIVE amount of people?

    I hope that there are more people play and more to enjoy living in a house and in a town. MASSIVE? It will not matter if there are massive amounts but if there are that would be a great way to live as we enjoy the MASSIVE amounts who will enjoy this game as much as I.

    4 Do you believe that, on this projects current trajectory, there will be an appeal to the amount of new players you want to see?


    I have no idea. I do not know what is in the future but I do know who holds the future. I am comfortable playing this game and am sure there are many others in our world that will love this game and put their hearts into the time they have for where their heart is.

    5. Aren't you worried that the sale or transfer or whatever it is to a company named "Catnip Games", the resignation of the two Kickstart founders (one of them being the sole reason anyone pledged), the years of stalled development, and the fact that the game was announced nearly 8 years ago and still performs like an alpha in many respects might be indicative of a game that has failed or is destined to fail in the very near future?

    No. I did not invest in this game to make money. I invested with my eyes open. I know that any project can fail and any good project can go forward. As long as @Chris is doing his job and leads the team with he continued input of the whole team as well as @ Dark Starr and Lord British they are all together I rest in what they will do.

    6. If they don't just turn off the servers (Tabula Rasa) but instead let the game linger in its current state ad infinitum, how long do you plan on playing and/or putting money into it?

    When you hear of my death and there is a funeral you attend that has my name in the place for deceased I plan to play this game.

    Again, no insult intended please do not take it that way. The reason I wanted to ask you these questions is because, while I am no prophet, to me this game seems to be somewhere between dead and dying. Looking through forums elsewhere on the internet, I would not hesitate to say that MOST of the people who pledged on Kickstart are darn near livid - worried they lost all of their money at least. On these forums I see a more measured response with some obvious questions being asked that need to be answered. Reddit is littered with folks who have claimed to have been banned for expressing frustration with the game, so that might be the reason for the calmer response on this forum although I have no idea if that is true or not, or whether they went a step too far to get banned. Anyway, you seem rather peachy about this. I was actually shocked when I read that response. So much so that I wrote this post - I do not get on the forums frequently and never for this kind of discourse. Please let me know if I have grossly misread the situation or your response to it. One final time - please do not take this as an insult or an attack, I am genuinely curious what someone who has spent the amount of money you have on this game and has your attitude thinks. Also, and this just occurred to me, to put my money where my mouth is I will answer my my own questions first before putting you on the spot.

    This is my first game to play. My son-in-law introduced me to this game after spending many many years playing Ultimate Online. Before that he played WOW. My children are grown and now I have the time to do many things but this game gives me the chance to relax, meet other players with this amazing community. If it seems strange to you that ok. Someday you may understand that joy and fun do not always come as expected or even understood. "Joy comes in the morning." The morning for me come in this game. Yes, I will continue supporting this game.
     
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  8. slandrew

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    Thanks for the amazing feedback guys and girls!

    If I may ask one more question:

    7. What would it take for this game to be a failure in your opinion?

    I sense a little bit of defensiveness in your responses, and I understand because the reason I am asking people in this thread is because you seem the most impassioned of the fanbase. I must reiterate though, I am asking for your honest opinions and am not trying to spark a debate. With that being said, if you feel that I have hijacked this thread please let me know. I am not well versed on the proper forum etiquette these days and do not want to upset anyone. I would however implore you to PM with your answers if you are so inclined.

    I appreciate other people's perspectives and the only way I can possibly understand is to ask so thanks again for answering!
     
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  9. Elwyn

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    1 - yes
    2 - the game is designed for massive population, easily 100x current population, probably 1000x
    3 - the real problem seems to be getting attention in the first place, but they've been working to keep new users from bailing once they do notice SotA
    4 - I can tell you that it's more stable than LOTRO, which has been around for well over a decade (weekly preventive reboots, lots of hitching, data center move fiasco)
    5 - I already knew Catnip Games was Chris (he had used that twitch name a couple of times), and it's one of the few companies that I would NOT have a problem with this happening
    6 - TR got turned off because NCSoft thought it wasn't doing well enough. (Same with City of Heroes, but there are stories that CoH was actually killed by a family feud going on in NCSoft!) Not failing, just not living making enough profit. That's one thing that SotA avoids by not having a big money publisher that isn't happy if you only succeed half-way.
    7 - not being able to pay its bills; they've cut unnecessary overhead expenses (and there were a lot with the corporation type that Portalarium was set up as), and game server costs are only a couple thousand bucks a month, so they have to fail hard for that to happen
     
  10. Brass Knuckles

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    yea this is very true here, people will rush in and attack negativity pretty quick. But like you said impassioned. Take it with a grain of salt I encourage you to speak your mind as you see it just know no matter what ur option people will disagree with you strongly. This is a place of 10 people with 15 different opinions.
     
  11. Tiina Onir

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    As someone who was there both this year and last as well, I want to echo Engineer's post here. Particularly on point 1. That was VARY heartening to see for me. @atos I think took notes during EVERY panel.
     
  12. Nick

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    Is there anything mentioned about the new quest system?
     
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  13. Tiina Onir

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    Yes. It seems that Inkle Studio's "Ink" scripting language is going to be used.
    One of the devs has used this in his own Unity side-project, so it's known to be fairly easy to integrate.
    This is also going to be made available to us (in a more limited fashion), for adding more dynamism to our play-made quests

    Semi-unrelated: we are also getting the first deliverables for LUA integration. This is be read-only stuff, but should allow some cool new 3rd party utilities. (second round will allow custom UI elements, 3rd will allow some limited talking back to the game servers (I'm making this sound more absolute then it probably is, for brevity))
     
  14. Astirian

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    Ooh! I wanna play!

    Well of course, more people -> more income -> more devs -> more polish -> more people. Enough people that running a vendor for the average Joe can be more of a full time job in-game, like Weapon Shop de Omasse! Aw yea. It could be nice also to see groups running every dungeon in the game when bailing up the LFG tool on a lazy Saturday morning.

    Yeah eventually but as Xee says, it'll take time. They just need to keep watering the plant at this stage. It's a bit of a chicken and egg thing for a number of reasons but they do indeed tackle a lot of issues over time. More on this below as it is tied to the perception of the game. And as we know, perception often eats reality for breakfast.

    Again, depends on the size of the dev team and what they need to stay afloat. I think since release they've really focused a lot on performance and bug fixes, loading times (I pleasantly saw Port Graff going from ~45 seconds down to ~18 recently! :D), QoL (things like bypassing CPs and sieges, tab targeting, better health bars, teleporting, adding in global chat in an optional lore friendly way, LFG tool! Making NPCs a bit easier to find, removing XP decay etc...), graphics have definitely improved (but as my little bro discovered, you have to crank the setting to max in the options). The map is now usable!

    If you were to list the improvements, there are actually a lot of very substantial ones and tons of little fixes. Not bad at all for such a small team! It's come a long way from the stuttering game with long-ass loading times I'd log into occasionally just to keep my lot active.

    Don't forget that they also spent a considerable amount of time moving the web store into the client after they went F2P. I think after that, a lot of energy also went into "what makes an F2P game profitable" work. And now they're trying to nuke the "bad RMT" image. So the game is actually quite vibrant in terms of adapting to survive which maybe isn't that noticeable to the outsider.

    They have a tendency to get distracted by cool stuff, or stuff the playerbase gets really excited about, like PoTs and PoDs, and I think they underestimate the time commitment to making those things a reality, which is why you see such a long dev tail with SotA.

    Did they release too soon? Yeah maybe. Are they passionate about making this thing a success? Absolutely!

    The news came as a bit of a shock at first and my first reaction was to panic a bit, yes. But then I read a lot in the forums and eventually watched the live stream and that put my mind at ease completely, nothing much has changed. To be honest, the quicker a game can get away from its Kickstarter and become its own thing, the better. Look at Elite: Dangerous for example. (There was also some negative furore surrounding that game, we'll get to that.)

    What we got with Port though, was the opportunity to contribute, be heard and honestly have the closest relationship to a dev team (of 30 or so back in the day) I have ever seen. That was awesome and fair play to Richard and the gang for that. I mean, here's a man that still personally replies to you when you finish his games!

    And that's why I backed in the first place. The Ultima legacy has been a big part of my life! And I think that's why there's a lot of passion flying around. Which can be good and bad. I've always felt this way about things:

    1. Investing in virtual goods to make money is a terrible idea. It's a game. (By all means invest in a company if you believe it will achieve success, but as with all investments, be prepared to lose what you put in!)
    2. The streams always brighten me up, Reddit is like that vat the Joker fell into most of the time, the forums are usually a nice in-between. (I agree with most though, streams only is not great comms.)
    3. They said they needed time to do the multiplayer frame for the game first and would then add the single-player immersive portion in. And then very suddenly released the game. I think this resulted in a number of effects:

    A.) The reviews pretty much highlighted the unfinished feeling of the Offline mode. It still felt too much like an MMO. (I've actually compiled an extensive list of key differences between single-player and MMO styles). To be fair, they did try to balance the economy, spawning rules, save/load and they added companions - but you can't equip them or anything like that AFAIK and I don't know how rich their interactions are in the story.

    B.) Performance wasn't where it is today, that hurt the game a bit. Polish and QoL weren't up to snuff either.

    C.) Reddit went off. I think most people on there initially were p|ssed because they felt like "Port just wanted to do Dance Parties and didn't care about a rich Ultima-like story and quest experience". This quickly devolved into attacks on just about everything, including RMT because it was an easy target.

    The big problem with this was that, because Port didn't have the advertising, or cash to do SEO and marketing, the Reddit threads always popped up at the top of Google searches. And in the mobile games market, if that first rating is 1/5 stars, you're in big trouble. It sets the tone for the perception of your creation.

    Maybe they wanted to wait some more before doing a big advertisement push but eventually they had to go F2P to survive and that meant working on the Crown Store etc... And eh... here we are.

    This is why I think a solid re-work of the quest engine and journal could really help shift the perception of the game come Ep. II...

    It won't be in its current state ad infinitum because it's constantly evolving. If they said that the Quest/Journal overhaul was nixed, or the Lua extensions so we can start to contribute alternative UI things doesn't really pan out, or if it legit turned into an MMO only, then I'd probably move on.

    At the end of the day I've played some glitzy chewing gum F2P MMOs and not stuck around, SotA (or even the potential of SotA) to me is more of a steak dinner. And that's a credit to the complexity of its systems, the sandbox nature of its design, its unique features and one day, the immersive nature of its quest and story.

    And I think given enough time, it can achieve true greatness.
     
  15. slandrew

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    :):):) I lol'd

    Some real good points.
     
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  16. Geaux

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    I am tired, and cannot remember nearly enough tonight, but these are some of the things I heard, mixed in with sidebars that only I may have been involved in with various team members...

    Taxidermy is NOT the previous ask about stuffing pets, it is having life sized posed replicas of what you hunt...as opposed to just heads on a wall.
    Loading vendor batches - you will be able to load multiple stacks of items for sale in the same keystrokes that it takes to load 1 stack today
    Loot nearest - no more massive campaign of clicking all over in an effort to loot
    PVP Switchover - feature that allows you to flag items like "Lock to Inventory", so PVP flagged items are all you can use or lose in PVP, no more mass time sink switching stuff in and out of inventory or fear of an unintended high value item being ransomed/at risk
    Prosperity type crafting accessories that are indestructible and reusable in all recipes in place of current chisels, hammers, ingot molds, etc
    New Buildings, Homes, Castles, Dungeon pieces, with the ability to apply surface finishes
    Player owned dungeon risk vs reward balance to bring reward level up
    Traps in dungeons no longer visible when dungeons are set to active
    Realm Challenge Conquest Map - territorial plats that allow weekly challenge matches for control of property from bordering plats, some of which offer buffs and boons for guilds that control them
    PVP ratings, QUE, and Tournaments - with the ability for players to watch in the arena - matching level appropriate players so they can battle for rank, as opposed to being steamrolled by superior power
    Essences for all elite creatures- allowing for crafted consumables to be made from them that are specialized use against the creature, with future inclusion in recipes to create specialized sets of equipment for use against specific creature types
    Arcane Catalysts -similar use vs Cabalists
    Spawners for Player Owned Dungeons in next release
    Cat, Squirrel, Firefly, etc. spawners for POTs
    All elite creatures will be migrated to have special attacks, tactics, and resistances, as opposed to all skeleton mages being fire mages as an example
    Unique Loot for Elite Creatures
    Craft batching that no longer dumps non produced failed materials into inventory at large, but returns to stack it came from and/or fuel is replaced so que continues to the full qty loaded to craft
    Craft qty stays at maximum batch craftable as opposed to having to click and type in max qty over and over and over
    Granting Developer Level powers to players conducting special events, such as summoning and manipulation of objects for the event
    Town Criers on World Map to offer details of town without having to search zone for them after running to who knows where
    Max qty on vendors raised to avoid the repeated reopening of vendor and purchasing over and over and over
    2nd Ring Slot
    Increased scope and scale for leaderboard
    Rating system for Player Owned Dungeons and Homes with mapping/database to get to them
    Property based list with control of items - send to inventory or bank- so specific items that get stuck in walls etc can be removed and reused
    Containers that allow logical control such as 1 in 1 out, player check for key or item required to open, etc.; usable for quest creation and other purposes
    My apologies for the partial list...
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2019
  17. Nick

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    They had this https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...de-1-content-plans-aka-the-2-year-plan.97521/ more than 2 years ago. And they had a much bigger team.

    How confident are they in completing this new list with a smaller team? Time is not on their side, they really have to give us players some form of confidence in them.
     
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  18. Vladamir Begemot

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    Irony, since they ban anyone that has anything good to say about the game there while also claiming it is a bastion for free speech.
     
  19. Geaux

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    IMO, they discussed a great deal of this in detail in our presence, and pushed back on things that they seemed to feel were pie in the sky due to work content etc., even if they were good ideas. I think this is going to be a you see more of this as opposed to less, as the team seemed to be concerned about over promising as they discussed things.

    I have had multiple messages with Starr and Chris since my return, providing details around a few things that I suggested, and I imagine others have as well.

    I intend to stick with it and see where this goes...
     
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  20. Sulaene Moon

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    Perhaps people who went to SotACon can fill me in on a question I have. Since I didn’t hear it on the livestream from SotaCon I figured it was addressed earlier in the day.

    What will be different now that Chris is in charge of the project? Since Chris stated that Starr and Richard are still active and the dev team has not changed what will be different now going forward?

    Does Chris have different ideas as to what should be implemented and what should take presidencies over other things? Does Chris have a better handle on timelines, expectations, improvements, customer service issues, etc?

    Has there been discussions on a new path or is it all going to stay the same? Also, if their plan was to save money from tax filings, etc why didn’t Portalarium or Richard just restructure into an LLC or setup another company to buy it rather then sell it to a company Chris set up? Why didn’t Starr buy it?

    Not sure if these were answered at SotACon but from the posts from people who talked directly to Chris, Starr, and Richard there I’m sure it probably was.
    TY
     
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