MassivelyOP Postcast and SOTA

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by oplek, Oct 16, 2019.

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  1. Vladamir Begemot

    Vladamir Begemot Avatar

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    Sign up to post stories at https://theavatar.express . It takes five minutes to post your news. We've cleared 4,000 pageviews and are getting incoming Google searches.
     
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  2. Alleine Dragonfyre

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    We should start a guide-thread about this with all the ways to share and then people can link to their posts here so we can like, comment and share on those platforms!
     
  3. Fenrus MacRath

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    That would be great if @Chris stopped looking for the fun things and snuffing them out with all the passion and dedication he should be showing to fulfil the kickstarter promises, fix the huge gaping problems that are too plentiful to list here or possibly anywhere. Priorities are whacked , OMG Someone is having fun and feeling like they are enjoying their leisure time!!! NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!, NOT on my watch!!!!!!!!!!!!……
     
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  4. eli

    eli Avatar

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    I'm happy to speak up for sota.

    The fishing is really good. Almost as good as Minecraft. Anyone can show up and roll the dice, so there is no barrier to entry or skill gap.

    The dance parties are on a large scale. between Cosmetics, dyes, deco, and the level of seriousness afforded them by the community. They may actually be best in class dance parties.

    The amount of ways to spend money on this game is truly impressive for a team so small. The backlog of Cosmetics and housing probably rivals fortnite.

    The insight and control that players have over development is also on the extreme side, as if it is still a well-organized kickstarter.

    The endless grind also puts this game in league with the extremely addictive Asian mmo's.

    I hope my positive feedback will improve the game's mass appeal.
     
  5. coffeeislife

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    This entire thread sums up the problem with Sota... Most of you still playing are acting like it's you, the customer, that's at fault. You're all saying "we should do more", "we should defend the game", "we should market it" (obviously paraphrasing and summarising here). This is why this game has gotten into the position it's in. You let Portalarium get away with it... You took on the burden of "QA" testing a game that should have had a full testing team in-house (they raised millions for it). You're now talking like you let Sota down because you didn't market the game (once again, they raised MILLIONS - where was the marketing?). Listen to yourselves! Snap out of it. This is a product, you are a customer. It's not your job to do Port/Catnips' job. Play the game if you enjoy it, but don't blame yourselves or anyone else that plays the game - whether they're white knights or reddit "trolls" (the folks on reddit are largely right about the game, sorry to say. they're not trolling).
     
  6. Fenrus MacRath

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    Its a hard thing to admit, but @coffeeislife is right on here. Just because you are OK with what this game has become ( Doll housing and click to fish) there are thousands of backers who bought into the promises and were completely let down. If I promised 100 people that I would deliver a diamond to each of them for $1000 and in the end only delivered a few CZs to about 25 of those people, would the other 75 people be wrong for being seriously pissed off and telling everyone in the world how they felt? Would their anger and malice not be justified?
     
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  7. Vladamir Begemot

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    Is it ok to go after the people who like the game because you're made? Call them names, make fun of their body/sexuality/mental health? Find out their real names and post them?

    No, it’s not.
     
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  8. Rada Torment

    Rada Torment Community Ambassador (ES)

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    That's terrible but being honest with ourselves and all old players and backers, thats an small part of that subreddit.
     
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  9. Oracle Watcher

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    Bzzt. Keep thread on topic and free of personal attacks please!
     
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  10. Sean Silverfoot

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    I disagree with that, I think it's a huge part. But whatever.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
  11. Alleine Dragonfyre

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    While that's absolutely true, it's not the way of the world anymore. Successful games with followings are shared over social media the world over and communities are created outside the game.

    Is it Catnip Games responsibility to, at the very least, publish to their own social media? YES, of course they should. But are you going to be there to share their posts? Are you there to share other fans posts about the game because that's how that works.

    Gone are the days that someone looks at an ad and says to themselves "Hmmm, that looks cool, I'll go play it." That almost NEVER happens now. People use their peers to learn about the stuff they're interested in. Especially on Steam. I cannot stress how much it would help if more people used Steam to play. Honestly, if I was in @Chris's shoes, I'd shut down the launcher for good and make the game solely accessible through Steam. (Yes, you can still sell your account. Just create a new steam account just for SoTA. Done.)

    Again,

    this

    is

    NOT

    about

    Reddit.

    I am not arguing. I am stating fact. I am sharing what fans do in 2019. I am informing you of ways to help, not blame anyone for not doing so. I am not telling people uncomfortable with social media to go get out there and do something you hate if its that uncomfortable to hit that retweet button on a post you like. I do know, for a fact, however, that a large portion of you are on social media. So.... yeah.

    Honestly, when I hear people tell others to do the exact opposite of what I'm suggesting really makes me feel foolish for being so active and sharing so much about the game the past two years. If it's futile and stupid, well, I guess my decision to stop unless others in the community join me will go unnoticed. Cool. Less for me to worry about.

    Here's some examples on Twitter:

    Lord of the Rings Online's Twitter Hashtag

    Ultima Online's Twitter Hashtag

    World of Warcraft Twitter Hashtag


    Archeage Twitter Hashtag

    Shroud of the Avatar's Twitter Hashtag
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
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  12. Geaux

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    I took your advice... After listening to their podcast, I looked in "Tips" and sent them an email per their request...

    Letter to the Editor

    SOTA

    Do you guys really know what's going on with SOTA?

    Do you understand that the player's actually get to determine the future?

    It's almost like the first movie that the audience selects various alternative paths and outcomes to arrive at a unique ending.

    This is not McDonald's with a choice of drink size, this is players developing the menu, packaging, and ingredients.

    Do you understand this about SOTA?

    It's a live form of organic development involving a serious level of participation and interaction from the players. Never before done as far as I can see, but you tell me...

    They are on the verge of flipping the switch that allows for player created programming and content to innovate the game as they play it. I doubt all of the players fully understand it, but it seems fairly revolutionary to me, so I thought I would ask you about it.

    In other words, it's not just another boxed game, it's more like a collaborative farm to table restaurant with an evolving conceptual menu that is only limited by the capabilities of technical components like the software, and the innovative spirit of the player base.

    I did not hear anything like this discussed in your most recent podcast, so I thought I would take the time to follow your instructions and ask...enjoyed your podcast!
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2019
  13. Katu

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    Yes, I understand whats going on with sota.
    Players don't actually determine the future. Port, now Catnip, decides what to do. They might listen to players, but they definitely make roadmap by them selfs.
    Its 6 years old game. I bet there are lots of games, that after few years, take a note from players when adding new content.
    This is a pile of almost working features with players asking for more and more.
    Yes, I understand this about Sota. Same time its what keeps me here and keeps me out.
    Development. There might be a reason, why none else has done it this way. Its not a positive thing, but you make it sound like its ok to have non finished, non polished features, because of this?
    Lots of games allow modding. Ever heard of World of warcraft? Lua, UI? They have had it quite a many years. Its nothing new. The NPC stuff is interesting thou and somewhat fresh idea. I bet it locked behind huge payments thou.

    Some players here, have not really played anything else between 80's and now. They say things like "Sota is the most beautiful game ever" and it makes me cringe. There are lots of good games out there. Others, the outside world, comment this game from that perspective. They have seen other games and this game does not par with graphics, Ui, quests, mob diversity etc, when compared to other games. These forums are huge echo chamber and sometimes I feel that devs were trapped in it at times.

    Future looks better now, waiting eagerly.
    I know Lua.
     
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  14. coffeeislife

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    All of that happens organically, if a developer treats their game and community well. I've spoken to people in streams and the like about Sota from time to time, and even back when I still played it regularly, I felt very reticent to recommend it to anyone. I can't even in good conscience tell people to check it out now, even if it is free to play. On the off chance that they actually like it, I would feel terribly guilty exposing someone to what's going on with the developers. The game itself is mostly fine, there's a lot to love, but this thread is about the massively op talk, and I completely understand where they're coming from, because I feel the same. I too am sick and tired of the needles BS surrounding the game. The game itself has issues, but it has a lovely community, and enough of a game to be enjoyable. Unfortunately, it's surrounded by needless scandal after scandal. "Oh I'm not CEO, but actually I am, but I didn't know". "Oh the book won't fit in the box" (that's pretty much a "do you guys not have phones?!"). Issue after issue. None of them to do with the actual game. I would be the first person to say not to care about what goes on outside the game, and to just enjoy the game, but I've told people before when they ask on stream or in-game when I'm playing something else: "Definitely check it out, but I wouldn't spend any money on it unless it's something small". Now, because of everything that's happened in the last year, I can't even tell them that, because I honestly don't know how long this game will keep going, can't justify spending 100+ hours grinding in a game only to have it be cancelled. Incidentally, the straw on the camel's back for me was when I saw a now-deleted steam review of sota by a guildie that I have a lot of respect for... It hit all the bases, was honest, and was enough of an indication to me that the game is on its last legs. I have spoken up for sota in the past, like I'm sure most people that played and enjoyed it have, but when the criticism directed at the game is true, there's not much you can do. The criticism about sota has for quite a long time not been about the game, but the mess of a situation the developers are in. In an mmo, that's just as important. I'll correct anyone about the myth regarding housing as being completely inaccessible unless you spend money, but I can only agree when people say what they did in that massively podcast.
     
  15. Geaux

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    Are you Bree, the editor that my post was addressed to? If not, while I appreciate that you have an opinion, my post was not directed towards you... So since it's my opinion, as flawed as it may be, it does not need anyone's correction or guidance; but you can certainly go to their site and send them a letter stating your opinion as well, and I hope you do.

    The reality is, there are lots of unfinished things, on that we can agree. Interestingly, I do not see the Team saying that everything is finished.

    I look at this like Thomas Edison may have if he was a gamer...as he thought that most people miss out on opportunity because it arrives wearing overalls and looks a great deal like work.

    I see this game as a HUGE opportunity, with a HUGE amount of work to be done.

    Stupid analogy time:
    I used to rake leaves in my yard when I was a young kid, and I observed that you can go about it 2 ways...little piles, or a long row... Little piles get little areas completed one at a time, while the long row is not complete until the very end.

    Which is the correct way to do it?

    SOTA has taken the path of Row Raking...

    What this means for players is this, there are no completed piles of leaves.

    Because this game has so many different appeals for so many people, it is a HUGE undertaking.

    Because players are so passionate about their piece of the pie, there is a HUGE amount of impatience and frustration, because we all want our little piles to be finished first.

    What I have not seen before, is a game that actually tries to appeal to so many potential players. Roleplay, PVP, Decorators, Designers, Quest Writers, Dungeon Builders, Crafters, Realm Builders, and I am certain that I am leaving many of the passions out...

    Again, a HUGE effort required to pull it off, lots of time, people, and money... I am willing to help them try if they want my help, and look forward to what it looks like when it is farther along...

    It's my hope that others feel the same way...
     
  16. Mishikal

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    Except now they've ruined decorating with their new heritage items, too. The final and last reason my wife had to play this game.

    Back when SOTA announced it was going to "officially" release, I was against it, because the game lacked polish. But no, people had to go on and on about how many years it had been and the need to get something, ANYTHING, out there, despite the fact that persistence at least was in place. There were serious, massive problems that existed in the game then that precluded a release that are still ongoing to this day that have had serious, significant negative impact on the reception of the game. Things like (and this is a very, *very* short list):

    a) The questing system
    b) The questing journal
    c) The dialog system
    d) The crafting system in its entirety
    e) The agriculture system (going to differentiate this from the rest of crafting)
    f) Abysmal loot tables

    There have been minor improvements to some of these areas (mainly in crafting) but they're all still a mess and not production ready. The list of issues with this game go far beyond this. There are aspects to SOTA I like (or have liked) but for me, do they outweigh all the other issues? no, they don't. I play a game to have fun, not to be stuck in endlessly tedious cycles. As someone else noted, you want to craft? Well be prepared to spend mindless hours gathering components, then spend mindless hours refining those components, followed by the likelyhood that most or all of that work in the end was for nothing. You want to go out adventuring to build a powerful character, but can't spend 18 hours a day solely on XP? Good luck. Oh yeah, and the build you finally got to where you could maybe do some of the more challenging content? It'll be nerfed to ensure everyone has the same level of tedium and pain XPing before you know it. SOTA, for reasons I've never understood, seems to fetishize suffering. That's the only real "virtue" I see consistently applied throughout the game, not sure what all the rest of them are for.

    Making matters worse, new systems are routinely added in an unfinished state, and those too are (so far) not revisited and finished, so the stack of unfinished items needing polish continues to grow. Brewing and Dungeons are quick examples of such unfinished systems. Even worse, Dungeons introduced a whole additional level of tedious grinding to the game.

    Personally, I'd prefer Port/Catnip sit down and polish what's already there before introducing a half dozen new systems that will likely be bug ridden and unlikely to ever be finished.

    Another problem is the lack of QA. You'll often hear Darkstarr touting on streams how Port does "Agile" development. This is untrue. They are certainly using some of the Agile methods, but they are not doing Agile. Agile MANDATES QA exist in the process, and yet that's clearly not the case in what Ports doing. Agile is not just doing things in sprints, with daily standups, and using JIRA for your development. It's a very detailed process that has many additional requirements, of which a strong QA presence is one of the requirements. Yet Port's QA team was terminated and the responsibility put on players. This. is. not. agile.

    So while I wish SOTA the best of luck, I don't see anything particularly changing with the way the game is headed. Instead, I see it more likely that the game will continue to bleed players as promised fixes remain nowhere to be found and new systems come online bringing new problems and frustrations.
     
  17. Fenrus MacRath

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    This should be on Shroud's tombstone.
     
  18. Spinok

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    If we look at this from the sandbox MMORPG point of view:
    a) - optional
    b) - optional
    c) - optional
    d) Partly agree, need polish: First, include things like aortic thrombus and etc into it, second rework gem enchants(drain life blind and etc)
    e) Fully agree - ALL agriculture products should be removed from NPC vendors, yes would be a lot of crying but the market will stabilize it in 1-2 months.
    f) Partly agree but only in a part, there is huge amount of content with good loot(for example some of my guildmates, they even would not go out basement if it is less then 100k igg per hour, so loot is not bad I think), but some mobs like kobolds both Krul and swamp kobold king need loot improvements. As well as of PVP zones should have major loot improvement.

    P.S. Game is already not bad here is a list of what we need from my point of view:
    1) More players
    2) Fix bugs and balance(not to nerf something but to make more schools and builds playable without 10kk class armor)
    3) PVP content and guild warfare, hardcore MMORPG sandbox without deep and profitable guild warfare systems and PVP its even heard wrong.
    4) Remove grinding for XP for casual players and raise XP quests awards ten-twenty times. 1kk XP for login will work as well.
    5) Almost forget - we need global search for items on vendors, 95% of new players say that system when they need to run from vendor to vendor, and look for alternative offers to understand the fair price is AWFULL and TERRIBLE. (The only guys who against this system - are the guys who want to sell under not fair prices, pretty sure that we have to choose the side of new players here)

    P.S.S. @Chris hardcore pve players make more than 100k igg per hour or 10 minutes XP cap, why you are afraid of giving PVP guys igg and XP. Give us fun give us reason to fight each over, give us fights for POWER and MONEY. And who doesn't want to participate in pvp ok they will go pve and would make their 100k per hour and would be happy.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2019
  19. Xee

    Xee Bug Hunter

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    Myself I like the tedious crafting, this is what sets adv and crafting apart its the first game I played that made crafting feel like it was not just added on but rather a profession that you have to work on like adventure.

    I do think you hit the nail on the head though on releasing things unfinished. Id rather see some more polish sometimes on things that come out rather then partially working.
    QA is one of the most important things imo to keep customers happy, bugs are always sucky.
     
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  20. Rekih

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    100k igg / hour? would you please share this information with us? how you could farm 100k in one hour? 20-30k/h is what I can do but 100k is more than double, I'm shocked if thats possible.
     
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