Overbilled after buying add-on CotO's

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Winterweaver, Dec 27, 2019.

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  1. HannahAlpenglow

    HannahAlpenglow Avatar

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    One wonders if Catnip will perform a look back for all affected countries that have been overcharged, and proactively refund for however long this has been happening...
     
  2. Winterweaver

    Winterweaver Avatar

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    So Catnip is the person I need to address every time I need the exceeding charges fixed?

    Thank you, because I asked in a PM convo if I could get the name of this particular person instead of writing forum posts (or address the CEO) every time monetary issues had to fixed - but I got no reply.
     
  3. Paladin Michael

    Paladin Michael Bug Hunter

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    Catnip isn't a person - it is the firm of Chis Spears (Atos). Addressing him or Ravalox is currently the right way, I suppose.
     
  4. Winterweaver

    Winterweaver Avatar

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    Ah, well I am a newcomer so I haven't had time to discover how the company constellation is - other than I already have been in PM contact with Chris who until this day, assisted me in refunding several times (yet to go into my bank account).

    Question remains ... how much patience does it take?. Sure - refunding several times 20$ is an appropriate amount, but when it comes to 2.25$ ... is that to petty an amount to 'waste' time on?

    Not much, but it'll add up and there's a principle behind.
     
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  5. Paladin Michael

    Paladin Michael Bug Hunter

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    That's the reason, why I told you about the names. SotA was started by Portalarium and last year [how this sounds ;)] changed to Catnip games.
    Same developer crew. Only a name change :)
    Well, I think it's always important to tell, if something went wrong, so it can be fixed.
    Such things happen, unfortunately. We are all humans and we are making errors.
    The same with bugs in game. And the same question you asked: Am I ready to spend the time?
    For sure many other players will appreciate it - like in this case :)
     
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  6. Winterweaver

    Winterweaver Avatar

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    Thank you for your forthcoming, helpful and positive response!

    'Making errors'. True and it is not my attitude to blame or flame, taking errors in consideration.

    If I on the other hand sense that errors are done on purpose - my pen could easily get 'sharper' - but that's another story ;)
     
  7. Spoon

    Spoon Avatar

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    Uhm.
    Isn’t this simply the VAT?

    As in you are getting the discount but upon billing it adds the VAT on top whereas Sweden/ Denmark etc has 25% it just happens by chance to add up to the same sum...

    $100
    Discount 20%= 0.80x = 0.8*$100 = $80
    VAT 25% = 1.25x = 1.25*$80 = $100

    Hence why it affects both purchases and subscriptions.
     
  8. Winterweaver

    Winterweaver Avatar

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    It could be an explanation, and you have a point - but ...

    When I buy here in add-on store it says that sales tax is included in the amount being billed, just as the danish legislation demands: Either announce a sale where net cost in D.kr. (excluded sales tax) and sales tax in D.kr. - are informed separately (in the national currency).
    Or inform the full amount being billed as well as the percentage tax included in this amount

    The latter is what they follow in the add-on store - so the amount I pay, has already sales tax included. Nothing wrong there - they follow the law.

    A second explanation that sweeps off your - else beautiful - calculation is, I subscribe to Hearthstone, ArcheAge, World of Warships as well as other games and use their stores and discounts. They also inform but one huge difference is ... in each and every purchase I made, I am billed ONLY what the amount in the basket total says.

    I have one funny memory which surfaced after all this.:

    The ONLY game that has ever overcharged was funny enough Ultima Online where I either bought some in-game items or an expansion (I can't remember which though).
    There is no company comparison in this - but I DO find it funny that the company that hosted UO - (I think it was EA Games at first, then Origin) - was 'father' to the running legacy: Shroud of the Avatar.

    I wrote the company and they corrected the error as they should.

    So, so your calculation is basically right, but has no relation to any sales tax, included or excluded :)
     
  9. Sean Silverfoot

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    Hmmm, just so we're all clear; there is NO discount to the Monthly subscription it's always been $9.
     
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  10. Winterweaver

    Winterweaver Avatar

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    Yes but if READ my post thoroughly, you will read that I am billed 11.25$ instead of 9$! Among all the discount offers I used, is also a monthly reward program which I also use - discount or not.

    That is the issue - not if it has a discount or not.
     
  11. Senash Kasigal

    Senash Kasigal Avatar

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    9$+25% VAT=11,25$
     
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  12. Gia2

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    Wow, is anybody else from EU checkin this sota math?
    Will do asap here as well
     
  13. Winterweaver

    Winterweaver Avatar

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    @Senash Kasigal. Stop wasting my time with petty lecturing. Don't you read what I write?!

    Yes I can figure out what 25% is - sigh.

    BUT as I wrote quite previously: Accordingly to danish law; if tax is included they should just write the % of the inclusion > they do that > The tax IS already included.

    If excluded they should inform the exact amount of the tax exclusion.

    AS I WROTE ... look at some of the previous post - they ARE following danish law: When I buy in the add-on store they DO inform how much tax is >>> INcluded<<<. ALSO in the 9$.

    No matter how much tax or VAT is INcluded the 9$ will STILL be 9$.

    And that is what they inform they charge my credit card ... and I have NEVER paid national VAT buying ANYTHING in a game.

    Next time buddy - read posts before you lecture (hot d..mit).

    And besides ... the main issue is NOT the 9$. *Facepalm*
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2020
  14. Senash Kasigal

    Senash Kasigal Avatar

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    Its nothing new. Vat was introduced when Travian took charge of the shop for the EU. It was always at the end of the process.
     
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  15. Spoon

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    When trying to help folks who ask for assistance I wouldn’t presume that a full rebuttal would be necessary?

    Check the location next to my avatar. I’m from Sweden.

    You listed all the steps in your ‘ghost purchase’ above. Exactly at the step you said the price increased back is where the page adds vat to me.
    If it does it to me then there is no reason to believe that it would treat you differentlybecause you are from Denmark.
    Inside Sweden it is the same with including vat in price but in international space we are both regulated by EU directives and not our country laws.
    https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_custo...information_microbusinesses_euvat_2015_en.pdf

    Where the US state law that Catnip games resides VAT is indeed added at the end much to the surprise to tourists from all over the world.

    So I have no doubt that it is vat that you are seeing.


    However it would be nice if @Chris did a review since I don’t think that Catnip is MOSS compliant like travian/portalarium was.
    This since it is using a more limited company registration form.
     
  16. Beaumaris

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    Understanding what you see on your receipt may clear up the conversation.

    When you say --'they do that'-- do you mean that you see Catnip specifically identifying VAT on your receipt? And is that VAT shown the difference between between $11.25 and $9.00?

    The idea that tax is included in a price sounds like the right assumption for prices offered by business in Denmark. However, keep in mind that Catnip is not a Danish corporation with assets doing business in Denmark. And so their prices might not reflect VAT. You are purchasing internationally, and so subject to VAT, yes? The math offered by others above seems to explain that's what it is, yes?
     
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2020
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  17. Sean Silverfoot

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    Don't be a pompous ass. I read it and understood. I was just trying to help. I agree with Spoon's assessment, taxes. I'm out.
     
  18. Winterweaver

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    As I wrote:

    "Sales tax included" - which means in the 9$ the tax have been included.
    Not excluded (will be added to the bill).

    I also wrote that I play and buy from other game companies. When I buy (also from US companies) the amount being billed (from the announced price > adding to basket > to the checkout > to the end of the transaction, 'accept') ... >>> is the same amount that is withdrawn from my bank account. <<<

    NO other company ever withdrew more than they announced.

    Is this so hard to understand?

    When other companies in the entire process announce a price then that price is also what I am being charged, when looking at my bank account.

    I also play online casino's. Here the same affects my bank account - they (ALL - also US Casino's) don't charge more than they announce.

    Summary ... an announced price is the same amount I see being withdrawn from my bank account in all other purchases - except Catnip.

    An explanation I got from Chris in a convo is that Denmark (and some other EU countries) probably not is on a list as receivers of discounts. Thus being billed the full amount.

    So it has nothing to do with sales tax or VAT. It is probably because some countries lack being on that discount list.

    He would look into it himself and talk to the web-guy who returns after jan. 9th.

    AND I've had had some refunds from them already. So it is a billing fault - not a tax or VAT issue!

    Therefore (asking politely) please stop muddying up this tread with irrellevant calculations until the issue has been resolved via the web-guy.

    End of case.
     
  19. Winterweaver

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    Sigh. This was NOT a comment to you - but a comment in general to posters ignoring what I already have informed of.

    Or suggesting irrellevant calculations because they didn't read the treads contents.

    I have no further comments.
     
  20. Oracle Watcher

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    Bzzt. Any further issues should be directed to support. Thanks!
     
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