Combat "balance pass"

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Barugon, Jan 5, 2020.

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  1. Gageman

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    Agreed. I would think Producer XP needs the boost, not adventure.
     
  2. Gageman

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    ESO has also been plauged with miscues and mass player abandonment, so I dont know if they are the right game to be using to prove your point. Not to mention, its really NOTHING like SOTAs combat system. I am afraid you are trying to compare Pineapples and hand grenades. @Cirsee is "Spot On" here.
     
  3. Gageman

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    huh?
     
  4. jschoice

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    My comparison had to do with whenever a dev team makes significant changes to a game. There are people who blow up about it, threaten to quit, and state that the game is going to close down. All anyone has to do is look at any official forum of any MMO and see this on a regular basis.

    Cirsee said that based on their experience nerfs don't happen like this in other games and I strongly disagree.

    From ESO forums from this summer:
    July 2019
    All the sorcs will magically become templars.

    With these changes there is no reason to play sorc, they have nothing to offer whatsoever.

    July 2019
    Here's a newsflash for the developers: The people who spend REAL money on this game are PvE players! STOP catering to the noisy PvP players and/or make it so things they complain about (Earthgore anyone? - That helm was not easy to get and all who worked hard for it just lost a LONG STANDING tool in the healer realm) just don't function in Cyrodiil. The latest "leak" has made it seem that ESO is trying to become WoW...WHY?

    July 2019
    If you used yours (13 years old one) more, you would see that this skill got gutted as well. There are no extra elemental bonus effects. It's not as strong as it seems.
    After this patch sorcs will hit like wet noodles if they try to fight a group of monsters in dungeon. This is the main problem people complain about.

    July 2019
    oh sheet if thats going to happen even in slow steps this game is going to die out like a binlk of an eye. And i even bet my life and my soul on that.

    I rarely play ESO these days other then to go through new content once. So I am not an eso fanboi either. They are also in the top 5 of MMO populations so I am not sure what you are referring to about mass abandonment.
     
  5. Gageman

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    I know what you are trying to say. I agree and my counter was that ESO s not a great game, hence it is your example at fault. Ironically, you have also proved the point that when Dev teams nerf skills, the player base goes berserk. I would surmise from that its a piss poor tactic for achieving balance.

    It is Bethesda for Crom's sake, of course they are a top 5 MMO. EVERYONE knows about ESO. Its not top 5 because it Nerfs its combat trees or that the Nerfs are so amazingly bringing back balance. Its Top 5 because they have a billion dollar global company behind them.

    1. World of Warcraft | ±7 Million Players. World of Warcraft Population. ...
    2. The Elder Scrolls Online | ±3 Million Players. The Elder Scrolls Online Population. ...
    3. Black Desert Online | ±2 Million Players. ...
    4. Guild Wars 2 | ±1.5 Million Players. ...
    5. Old School Runescape | ±1 Million Players. ...
    6. Final Fantasy XIV | ±1 Million Players.

    I will concede that ESO has gotten better as of late (As per my 14 year old son who plays it), but if it wasn't Bethesdas offering, It would be far worse off . Which other games do you know of that Nerf the Bejusus out of their stats and are thriving?
     
  6. jschoice

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    @Gageman I would agree doing nerfs like this does enrage players. But having talked with devs from bigger companies they say no matter the size of of their QA team or length that they keep things on QA they typically don't understand what is broken or exploited until it is in the hands of the players.

    MMOs are significantly harder to balance and develop compared to a single player game.a
     
  7. Sentinel2

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    It's top five now. When it came out, the game was garbage. Or so I'm told by those who bought in years ago. I had heard about the problems and shied away as a result of the feedback I heard.

    Despite having a billion dollar company behind it.

    Today it's worth playing. When Chris mentioned people might want to try playing other games in a recent livestream. I thought I'd check out what's there. Several friends suggested ESO. I bought in when it was $10 on sale. And I have to admit. While it has it's issues. Now that I'm more familiar with the game, it's one I would consider sticking with and am looking at what DLC's are available.

    Not looking at their plus account. That money is going to SOTA subscriptions instead :D
     
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  8. Cirsee

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    I play the game, I am a necromancer. It is still a very viable class as is the stamina warden. When Chris nerfs things become unviable. The two classes you give as an example were new with expansions; of course they become popular.
     
  9. King Robert

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    As someone who has not changed trees in forever, the thought of a nerf is really sad. Persistence was supposed to mean what you earn skill or item wise will not be taken away. Please @Chris make other things more powerful for balance, but please don’t take away things we worked hard to earn. Or worked hard to trade for and/or enchant, masterwork etc. Players should never go backwards because of a game change. That discourages playing. Progress in power must occur else why play? We should get better and be able to do more damage per bit/spell - that is the point or leveling up skills.
     
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  10. Arkah EMPstrike

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    By that logic you’d have to add an entirely new tier of zones and creatures every time an exploit or imbalance is found. By now people would be doing 40’000 dps. Then you have to create new scenes with new monsters that have 40’000 health, and theyll have to hit for tens of thousands of dps because everyone will have to have 200’000 health to avoid instant death in pvp.


    Or, you can just tweak ring of fire. Which makes way more sense. Leaves a heck of alot more time for workin on that 2020 plan.


    Also if say fireball suddenly killed clockwork dragons in 2 seconds, all other skills get boosted to that power, then relative to each other, the skills are right where they would have been if fireball was just nerfed, except it takes 130x longer and also every monster in the game is a pushover now
     
  11. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Agreed. I really dislike the "if it gets nerfed change builds" argument. Especially in SotA, which has always tried to appeal to the RP crown more than more mass-market MMOs. If you want to play X, and X sucks (and isn't a really niche weird build) it makes everything less fun.
     
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  12. Arkah EMPstrike

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    I dont think you have to change builds when something gets nerfed for balance. If the function of the skill gets changed completely i can see folks wanting to change but If you do, you arent playing a build for RP reasons or whatever. If you change builds you are changing because you are trying to stay with the most powerful setup.

    If you really wanted to play that build for RP reasons you would just learn to use it post-change.
     
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  13. Morgathys

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    I got 2-shot’d by an archer yesterday with my full plate + Heavy Armor buff. Im not whining but I expected a bit more interactions than a 1.68 seconds fight.

    Good point to had removed the ransom to adjust the PVP ;)
     
  14. ShurTugal

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    It's only an issue because they are
    Not putting new more advanced content out for the advanced player who keep getting better and better, I mean, come on now, how many their 10 zones do we have? Not a lot is the answer and making the advancing players weaker is not the answer and only a temporary bandaid.
     
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  15. Cora Cuz'avich

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    To a point. I spent a year going from struggling in the Rise to being able to handle most of it, then logged in one day and was back to struggling. This has happened twice now. If my options are spend another year improving, changing to a build I don't want to play, or doing something else... something else becomes more attractive. Every nerf means one more thing I can't do. And new stuff seems geared toward tiers 8 and up. I am sick to death of Crag Foothills and UT, but those are really the only things left. OTOH, it'll be years before I run out of things to do in ESO. Guess which one I'm playing?
     
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  16. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Sorta beat me to it, and stated a little more cleanly. Yes, we need more to do between tier 5 and tier 10. Advancement is so painfully slow after AL100. Additionally, the few areas that are not tier 5 or tier 10 are under tiered. There's maybe what, 2 tier 6 areas, and one or two tier 8? And they beat the crap out of me. 5 is stupid easy. I think that after 5, the devs just arbitrarily put numbers on scenes.
     
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  17. Arkah EMPstrike

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    I’d rather low tier scenes have a hard mode than to make ever scene that exists super easy by wasting time just boosting the power of every skill in the game. Either way you go, theres gonna be people that hate it. But one way people will hate it is exponentially easier to do. And its the same thing ESO does. So id agree more stuff to do is needed, but i disagree with you that ESO doesnt have skill balancing nerfs and i disagree that nerfs ruin the game.


    about pickpocketing. That was a situation i agree it eliminated part of the game. It wasnt a intended think since it was a side effect of removing ransom.
     
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  18. Lesni

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    Very Well said. I agree
    @Chris
     
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  19. Chatele

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    You see that sux, so because of air/ranged, all archer builds hurt from the dam nerf... I am just Archer, because I want to be a hunter with a pet. So I specked in Archery skills all the way and now adding pet to it.... I cannot kill a lot of things like I used to due to the nerfs.... I am playing in the same old boring scenes till I lvl higher, and I am lvl 102 takes forever solo. And no I care not to group, I am a soloer. And when I heard he is going to nerf archers again, our skills, and not the gear (artifacts i guess)that people really are complaining about, I told my hubby, "time for me to pull my monthly support if he nerfs my char again" we shall see. I already play less, because solo play is getting to hard and non rewarding.
     
  20. Chatele

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    Man o man if only the team could do this.... IF ONLY.....
     
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