Ammunition System

What happened to the ammunition system, suppose to give more arrow types for achers, probably helping them out a bit and guns, with other ammunition types. Would be a good way to use more resources as well

 

I really don't want to have to manage different types of arrows. They had that before and it sucked.

 

A fire mage didn't want to have reduced duration on spells but "for the good of the game...." or so they said.

 

One thing has nothing to do with the other.

 

Personally, I don't think we need ways to use more resources but that's not especially relevant to the question. I imagine it's on the backburner for later EP2 content and when you're focusing on combat balance issues like Chris has been doing you really don't want to add new combat abilities into the mix until you're somewhat happy with what you have. (I say somewhat as it's never going to be 'perfect') On that note it looks like bard skills is taking priority at the moment.

 

This is something that the game would support rather easy and could have a slot for it. We have ability to make arrows from wood and head molding so why not use that to make different types of arrows. only the slot is required so that the game knows what arrow type you want to use from the backpack @Chris

 

It was a pointless waste of time and needlessly complicated things. I can appreciate the RP aspect of it, but it generally added nothing but complexity, time, and cost to the archer build.

If we really want to add specialized arrows back into the game, give use ones that augment the current skills rather than be required for them. For example, if i wanted to go through the trouble of crafting a barbed arrow it could perhaps double the duration of a disabling shot, or maybe utilize a gem arrow head to double the duration of blinding shot. Something like that. Gives a boost to crafting as well.

Having to carry a bunch of different arrow types JUST to use the skills i already have is just irritating.

Fenris

 

I think ammo is a joke in this game anyways. Counting ammo only makes sense in games where running out is actually part of the gameplay, like a survival game, or part of the challenge, like a shooter. It's absolute nonsense in a game where you carry thousands of arrows, there is no challenge in using them efficiently, and buying more so you never run out is a no brainer. And before people say "But it's a money sink", no, it isn't. You still make more money than you spend, so the exact same effect could be achieved by just awarding less money to begin with. If it was a proper money sink there would have to be times where you can't afford arrows, so that you go through phases of saving and spending, but that would once again require a game where having no ammo is an intentional and thought out part of the gameplay.

 

The same can be said about reagents.

 

Arrows are a money sink.

You make more money than you spend on them, but you would make even more without that expense, especially when you consider it over time. Nothing about a money sink requires that it be sometimes crippling in extent to qualify as such. It need simply routinely drain resources that would otherwise have been available to put to other uses.

Any game that has expended ammunition has the potential of running out as part of the play. It many not be a central aspect of play, but you must still be aware of it and plan your supply of ammunition around your intended activity to avoid running low. If that planned activity is long and resupply inconvenient for the duration you must also consider the encumbrance your arrow supply will come along with, which is in itself an additional cost an archer must bear over their melee using fellows.

 

All true. Ranged weapons REQUIRE you to have them to function, unlike swords/hammers/pikes etc. making them more costly to use over time. Before I head out, i need to make sure i've checked on my supplies. Takes both time AND money. And i really have run out. Stacked rapid fire and multi shots take their toll during a long session (e.g. control point)

No different than reagents really as far as time and money sinks go.

Fenris

 

Upkeep is not a moneysink.

A true moneysink removes wealth from the game, it doesn't simply slow down it's accumulation by adding a small expense to all earnings. It's an expensive ingame purchase that is designed to only become attractive to the player once they have accumulated more wealth than what the basic systems of the game require. The main reason you don't see these in games anymore is because basically everything that would have made an effective moneysink is shoved into the cash store instead. It's these kinds of nice to have items you can sell for dollars and cents without anyone shouting "pay to win" that used to be what enticed people to dump disruptive amounts of wealth.

A system that doesn't actually remove wealth but simply takes a small portion of your earnings back once you make it back to town isn't a moneysink. If anything it should be called a grindrise.

Upkeep is only a legitimate game mechanic when it's used like in early Ultima Online, where 90% of the mosnters simply couldn't hit you if you were a ranged character or caster of some kind. It made sense to slap a pricetag on spells and arrows there, because that ensured that even though an archer could theoretically bring down a monster that was much tougher than the character, only an archer of an appropriate skill level could do it before the cost of downing it exceeded the reward. Once the efficiency question goes out the window upkeep becomes a vestigial system that really doesn't accomplish anything.

 

Ammo isn't just about arrows. There were always several other ranged weapon types planned. IE kobold weaponry which required the afore mentioned ammo system in their design. These were never really going to make it into EP1 content.

 

Of course upkeep is a moneysink. Slowing down the accumulation of wealth is functionally the same as reducing wealth after it is accumulated. None of the extra criteria you are trying to apply have anything to do with it. The sole criterion of a moneysink in a game is that it remove money from the game.

Cash shop purchases made with real money have nothing to do with reducing in game wealth so are irrelevant in regards to moneysinks in the context of that game.

A system that removes a small portion of your earnings removes it. That wealth is gone. It isn't part of whatever wealth it may help you earn and return with. That is all new wealth which may or not come, depending on the difficulty and nature of what you are seeking in the venture to begin with. It is a moneysink.

Upkeep is a legitimate mechanic whenever a developer chooses to apply it. That choice in itself provides all the inherent legitimacy the mechanic needs.

What the system provides in SotA is that archers must be mindful of their arrow supply, spell casters must be mindful of their component supply, everyone must be mindful of the condition of their gear, and all of us are subject to the constant drain on our resources that comes along with.

It's the little moneysink that could, and did, and does all the time we play. Those drops may seem irrelevant when considered in the moment. Over time they have a significant impact, as anyone with an unknown leak will know when they receive their water bill.

 

You're basically arguing that paying taxes is the same as buying a boat.

 

Arrows are not a moneysink. I'm no archer, but I have over 100k of arrows from mob kills sitting in my chest. Please continue conversation. My vote, no extra variation on arrow ammo. I can't give these things away.

Instead, allow us to imbue magic (certain spells) to affect the arrow's effects.

 

I think the OP was looking for a discussion and feedback on different types of ammo, not an argument about semantics. Whether or not its a money sink doesn't really matter.

I personally wouldn't want to carry around a bunch of different ammo types if you were forced to switch between them. If they were all automatically tied to certain skills like Fenris mentioned, I guess id be ok with it. But it still seems like it would just add more time to inventory management, which isn't really a fun thing to do.

 

That's because you're no archer. Arrows from loot are nowhere near the amount that archers use up. You might pick up a 8 or 9 from a kill, but it probably took a couple of dozen arrows to take it down. More at higher levels.

 

Might depend on the mechanics. If switching means I hit a hot key in the middle of a fight that's separate from the hotbar or something similar that might not be too bad. If it means having to take up slots on the hotbar that would be pretty annoying. Scarcely enough room on the hotbar now. If it means choosing your arrows before a fight.. greatly reduces the versatility you'd want in even having multiple types to begin with.

That said, remembering back on Ultima gives me a certain fondness for multiple types of arrows. Standard, magic, serpent arrows, burst arrows.. sleep arrows.. I think there's at least another type I'm probably missing.

 

If you were an archer then you would know that the arrows you get from mobs are a tiny fraction of the total used.