Plate armor vs Chainmail, first one really needs love

Discussion in 'Feedback Archive' started by Antrax Artek, Feb 6, 2020.

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  1. Antrax Artek

    Antrax Artek Avatar

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    I'm a plate armor user from a long time, scrupulously I did some tests to improve my chance of success in casting and i noticed that a full set of chainmail can reach basically very close Damage resist, Avoidance and Max Resist stats of a full plate armor.

    I wondered if taking into account the huge disadvantage in terms of fizzle chance from using plate armor, wouldn't it be better to improve the latter's defense performance compared to chainmail in order to make the choice of the plate really motivated?

    [​IMG]
    1st is a full chainmail set from the blacksmith npc and 2nd is a full plate set from the blacksmith npc.
    I had no defensive buffs but heavy armor spec.
     
  2. Drilikath

    Drilikath Avatar

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    Twice in One day...... I can not be seen agreeing with @Antrax Artek. Jokes aside. Another VALID point I realized when the Bonus for armor was changed. I swapped to chain because of that exact reason. I would really love to see some love on plate, So i can go back to wearing it.
     
  3. Lazlo

    Lazlo Avatar

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    Some pieces are a lot more unbalanced than others. The fizzle on plate chest and gloves vs. chain is pretty out of whack imo.

    Still have to remember that there is an armor type bonus on defensive stance that favors plate though (iirc). It's not that big of a deal, but it's something.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2020
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  4. Morgathys

    Morgathys Avatar

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    I totally agree that plate (even chain) armor need a lookup. I do not have data gathered yet and dont wanna share my though further without solid argument but something’s wrong :D


    EDIT: Im rushing Heavy Armor Specialization, then I’ll test things!
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2020
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  5. Elgarion

    Elgarion Dev Emeritus Dev Emeritus

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    Good feedback, I should start developing my process for collecting feedback and Wishlist items by this weekend at the latest. I do the "funner" stuff on the weekend.
     
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  6. Elnoth

    Elnoth Avatar

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    I see the plate has 70% more avoid on it.

    Resist has always been about the same for plate and chain and considering resist is pretty much useless for boss mobs, but avoid is critical, I don't see the problem?
     
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  7. Antrax Artek

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    Seems like we have totally opposite points of view, for me avoidance is superfluous while damage resist is vital for boss fights. Also +7% avoidance is anyway something very paltry.
     
  8. Jezebel Caerndow

    Jezebel Caerndow Avatar

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    I just dont find the extra avoidance and resistance worth the tons of extra fizzle. Still my favorite setup is chain chest legs and boots, hard leather gloves and cabalist helm, the fizzle is not TOO bad, and still can get the glancing blow MWS on the pants and boots.
     
  9. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    I just hope that if this conversation reaches Chris, he doesn't nerf chain as the easiest way out.
    Raise resist on Plate, Chris.... Leave Chain alone............. PLEASE ! :cool:
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2020
  10. Cordelayne

    Cordelayne Bug Hunter

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    YES!!!! Please give plate some love! The high fizzle for the increased dmg resistance just isn't worth it! Make Plate Great Again! #MPGA
     
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  11. Elnoth

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    Plate and avoid will always be best for tanking boss type mobs. If you get hit by back to back 800 damage crit hits, even if you have 50DR (max 80%) then you will still take 800-50 = 750 damage from each hit, usually resulting in death.

    If you have high avoid and get a glancing blow, you take 1/3 damage from memory, so those 800 crits will become 267 damage glancing blows, and you live.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2020
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  12. Antrax Artek

    Antrax Artek Avatar

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    Sorry man, but your calculations regarding how damage resist and max resist work looks totally wrong, to be honest I don't know what formula you used. If it was really so, obviously I would have agreed with you.
    Despite i can't see the point of arguing about Avoidanced against DR, considering in both cases the benefit of plate armor is extremely low compared to the penalty, I'll provide a comparison log soon, to explain better how it works.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2020
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  13. Antrax Artek

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    120.3 DR 82.5% Max VS 0 DR 82.5% Max
    Check min/max damage and you will see high DR reduces damage almost like avoidance but to all hits. :)

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2020
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  14. Elnoth

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    Sorry, you were right.

    I used damage resist of 50 (max 80% ) in my example, which corrected now shows that the maximum damage from a single hit will be reduced by 50 damage OR 80% of the damage (whichever is less) so for an 800 damage hit on you the 50 damage value is used.

    800 damage hit using DR is still 750 damage hitting you

    800 damage hit avoided (glancing blow) you take 1/3 of the damage of the hit, so 267 damage
     
  15. Elnoth

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    I've been thinking more about this and I think I realise what the problem is. Fundamentally it has to do with plate having an avoidance advantage over chainmail, but way back a couple of years ago Chris changed the math on how stats worked when people were doing 100% avoidance builds, and this greatly reduced that advantage.

    In that change he made the roll number for what type of 'hit' you take/get based on the sum of all the defensive buffs, rather than a 100 roll. So bassically if you have 100 avoidance now, it is added to a roll pool that will include the dodge chance, the chance for the opponent to crit, and the chance for the opponent to hit. So that awesome 100 avoid is watered down to maybe 100 of the possibilities in a roll of 300, or 33% chance to avoid.

    Since the math was changed, it greatly diminished the usefulness of plate as a great defensive option. In order to restore balance, the avoid stats built into the armor need to be significantly increased. Even if they were increased 10 fold it still will not hit the same 100% chance to avoid that people were getting a few years ago.

    I do not think that the fizzle chance should be changed. Why turn plate into a beefed up chainmail? Adjust it so that it can be the armor it was menat to be. For tanky meelee builds.
     
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  16. Cordelayne

    Cordelayne Bug Hunter

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  17. Violet Ronso

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    Yeah, big time, he really pin pointed the issue here, I always thought Chris just didn't care about heavy armor, simply because the % avoidance was before I got fully invested in the game.
     
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  18. Cordelayne

    Cordelayne Bug Hunter

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    Agreed.

    I remember that nerf and holy cow did it cause a s**storm. The forum post about it got pretty heated, with yours truly being one of the most vocal against the proposed nerf.

    Believe it or not, what ended up being implemented was LESS than what Chris originally intended. Crazy, I know. Let me see if I can find it and link it, because it speaks to all these concerns back then!

    Like all things here balance is a moving (if not impossible) target. :D
     
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  19. Violet Ronso

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    I mean, I don't dislike how it is now, granted it is far weaker, I would simply hope Damage resistance numbers could go WAY up, like up to the 400-500s up. There is already the max absorption mechanic in place, meaning if you get hit for less than your resistance, you still take damage, so why can't I get far higher resistance numbers to better mitigate high level enemies, and players as well? Chain could get less resistance, maxing out at around 100-150, which is already higher than now, but Plate, with 5 max resistance pieces, with spec, and a shield? Yeah gimme 500 resistance, and don't change avoidance, that is what I would like to see tbh!
     
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  20. Cordelayne

    Cordelayne Bug Hunter

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