Crafted Gear Set Bonuses (Brainstorming Session)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Elgarion, Mar 9, 2020.

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  1. eli

    eli Avatar

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    The benefit i see for full crafted bonus is for, for instance, making the head slot a viable thing to craft for a tailor, as everyone uses a hood.

    Making leather more desirable for Dex/melee class rather than half-cloth.

    If there's a plate one, gives people a reason to use less chain for certain builds.

    In general, it fills holes in what is worth crafting.
     
  2. Barugon

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    @Elgarion

    As I posted in the other thread, I think the simplest and easiest thing to implement would be to boost the already existing set bonus if all items are crafted.

    [​IMG]

    Currently, the bonus looks to be +2% for each piece. Make it +4% each if all pieces are crafted; +5% each if they're all crafted by the same person.

    Whatever they decide to go with, please make it so that artifacts (even those that are crafted) don't count.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
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  3. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Could kill two birds with one stone and go the ESO route, where set type comes from crafting stations found out in the world. You get your set bonuses, and if the locations of the craft tables are neglected scenes, it gets people visiting scenes they may not otherwise.

    Of course, knowing how SotA tends to work, they'll all end up like Hilt and be miserable to get to and use...
     
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  4. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Though, it'd be pretty much stealing an idea directly out of another game, so maybe not.
     
  5. ShurTugal

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    Might want to put something in there about skills used increasing aggro so they can actually hold aggro cause my experience is that a well fitted high dpsing toon draws aggro the moment they start applying damage. What's the point of a "tank" that can't keep aggro off his dpsers and healers??? :)
     
  6. ShurTugal

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    We want complete transparency. Nothing hidden please. It takes fun away from the game and really messes a lot up. :) thanks. :) people are already complaining about some of the current "hidden" stats on somethings such as virtue stats as well as current poor descriptions on things. We dont need to add to it in my opinion. :)
     
  7. kaeshiva

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    @Elgarion While I am thrilled that we're talking about set bonuses for crafting love, my chief concerns are (based on historical precedent) that a lot of time/effort will be spent adding something that nobody will use because it either a) isn't significant enough or b) is too costly. This is kinda a recurring tale with crafting.

    One of the great freedoms of Sota is the mixing and matching of things according to your build/playstyle.
    If set bonuses further this effort - great. My fear is that they will be implemented in a way that is detrimental to this.
    If we start adding bonuses to non-optimal configurations, and the bonuses are not significant, then nobody will bother using the system.

    Example:
    As someone who is wearing a mix of heavy/light pieces, do I really want to sacrifice a load of defense, millions of exp sunk into armor skills, etc. not to mention the cost (which will likely run into hundreds of thousands of gold in materials) of re-crafting everything I'm wearing according to whatever the 'set bonus' implementation is, just to get myself 1% of something or +5 to something? Probably not.

    A set bonus would have to be pretty significant to make it more appealing than the current best-in-slot artifacts, especially with combinability/enchant/masterworkability of artifacts making them light years beyond the best crafted equivalents. I shudder to think what you'd have to add to a 'jewelry set bonus' to make it better than a warlock chain and 2 attunement rings at legendary, for example. In attunement alone you'd need to add +50 just to be on par, not to mention the amount of intelligence you'd lose. Same thing with anything that's going to try and oust the use of cabalist hoods - which, when mw/enchanted, far surpass even the best possible crafted alternatives. I don't think anyone's suggesting a 3-piece jewelry set saying oh, I use all "gold" crafted jewelry so let me add +50 to attunement and +25 int as a set bonus. That's over the top, I think we all agree. Except that's what it would take, to be on par with the artis. If its not as good as the artis, people will just continue to use the artis.

    So if we said, arbitrarily, - right, if you wear all 'augmented cloth' then you get an extra +5 to this or that.
    It will be a system I ignore completely, because not only would this need to give me more than I get from using different materials to achieve parity, it would need to be good enough to get me to rebuild everything I've done, make significant build changes by switching to a light chest, etc. Bearing in mind that crafting high level gear takes weeks of material grind for a single set of gear the cost would simply be too high in every regard unless the bonus was amazing.

    Likewise, if you said - right, wear all augmented chainmail" and get this or that - as a caster, I can't do this as fizzle will be unmanageable. So unless the set bonus is ridiculously good, its completely impractical to subject myself to unreasonable fizzle rates.

    If we're talking small, little bonuses, then the set bonus application needs to be broad enough and simple enough to encourage people to actually do it.
    This is why I again reiterate that set bonuses as another layer of customization to new/existing crafted gear is the way to go. Its in the player's control, its consumable or learning based, and would not take away the current freedoms we have in gear type mix/match which is a core part of customization. There's no downside here and you're not forcing a complete gear do-over (except when it comes time to replace things anyway) nor are you requiring complete build overhauls to utilize the system (which means the system gets ignored).

    How strong do we want set bonuses to be? From the examples, it seems we're looking at small little bonuses. And that's okay. But they need to make up for what you'd sacrifice, else will not be utilised and the entire effort becomes moot.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
  8. ShurTugal

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    I agree, those bonuses better be something else to lure me to switch. I have come to despise the cabalist hoods for one simple fact. There is nothing I can get that comes close to the int I get with a properly enchanted hood ( at least I have not found it and trust me, I've looked) which means my choices (if I want the stats which I do) are hide head piece or look like a cabalist which means I am forced down another path which is finding patterns for the rest of the armor that match my hood. So, these armor bonuses better be something else to get me to choose them over something I despise but feel I have no alternative but to wear.
     
  9. Violet Ronso

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    In my opinion, the sets should come from a gem-like system. Use "Gems of Protection" on your gear pieces, and have the "protection set" effects proc. These gems could only be inserted in crafted gear, by someone with GM+ in a masterwork or something (heck put it 120 in the specific masterwork, this way it will be for crafter who have invested enough time!)

    I think this is the best way to implement sets coming from crafting, that wont disrupt players current gear or players mixed sets.
     
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  10. Violet Ronso

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    Ohh, and to try and help even more, these orbs/gems/thingamajingies could actually be obtained as a random drop from salvaging crafted gear! This could help give junk crafted items a use!
     
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  11. Rowell

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    Personally, I'd like to see the quality of the components come into play more. Why do we make Exceptional Maple Boards, and Exceptional Copper Bindings, and Exceptional Supple Leather if those exceptional qualities do not translate into the manufacture of an end product? Perhaps making a piece of armor using exceptional materials by default increases the durability of an item, or enhances the bonuses inherent in the component.

    Looking at the craft system overall, it really needs to move away from RNG and more towards a skill based system. Perhaps something like your skill level gives you a certain number of points to create an item. Each item has a set number of points needed to create (ie, a Dagger takes 25 points to craft, a Halberd takes 95) and a durability based on the components you're using to make the item (higher quality components means you start with a higher durability). You use your crafting points with skills that move the crafting process along. Some of those crafting points move the item to completion. Some skills increase the durability. Some skills imbue the item with certain properties (based on the materials/components). Here is where you could also include Mastercrafting/Enchanting, which give additional skill buttons to use crafting points to take additional materials (ie, silver ingots, gold ingots, gems, jewels) to add effects to the item. You MUST complete the item though (spend the 25 points to make that Dagger, or the 95 to make that Halberd).
    Each skill has a chance to fail, which means the points are spent, but the progress isn't made/the durability isn't added/enchantment or masterwork didn't take. this way, crafting is still a skill based system with limitations, but less of an RNG-fest, and more of a sense of accomplishment.
     
  12. Elgarion

    Elgarion Dev Emeritus Dev Emeritus

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    I'll reply to these today...
     
  13. Elgarion

    Elgarion Dev Emeritus Dev Emeritus

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    All Crafted, Same Maker's Mark
    • Names: Unity Set Bonus, Dedicated Customer Set Bonus
    • Bonus Considerations: Do not make more powerful than other bonuses simply different than other bonuses,
    • Suggested Bonuses: + to single target spells,
    • Description: This set bonus is derived when a player equips themselves with crafted gear made by a single player. This rewards players who make their own gear or are regular customers to a single crafter.
     
  14. Elgarion

    Elgarion Dev Emeritus Dev Emeritus

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    Additional ideas are key here, and ones that do not require new tech. But I will record new tech ones for later use.

    What is in the tooltip already? What does the gear know about itself, compare to other gear items, etc.
     
  15. Minerva

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    I strongly agree with this! I love the fact that we can mix and match, make a unique set showing our individuality. Everyone wearing the same OP gear to go to the same zones to get the high XP will lessen the wonderful sandbox that is SotA.
     
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  16. Elgarion

    Elgarion Dev Emeritus Dev Emeritus

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    Going to try to do a stream on this today as well as I go through these replies, I'll like the stream so you guys can also here verbal discussion as I write up my responses. It'll be nice to work this during stream so I can knock out 2 items in one day ;) I'll post these streams in OP as well as reply.
     
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  17. Adam Crow

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    If the developers continue to make artifacts that are more powerful then crafted gear - bandit armor, envy/xen bows, warlock chain etc... - all these bonuses were talking about are a complete waste of developers time. Especially if there is a plan to add another level past legendary.

    If the plan is to allow these bonuses to be powerful enough to compete and possibly replace these items under the right circumstances, then I can see it being a worthwhile system.

    That being said, I'd like a system similar to what @kaeshiva explained. Allow us to add a consumable to all pieces that designates it for a certain set and bonuses. Keep it simple at first, with a set bonus that helps melee, a set for ranged and a set for casters. Then down the road more things can be added for specific magic trees, melee classes, crafting, taming etc.

    Do not make the bonuses so great that they make all the artifacts useless. Balance it out so that both artifacts and crafted gear are potentially used by all levels of players.

    I want to play a game where I have many decisions on what gear to use depending on the situation. I don't want to feel forced into using the same best in slot items that everyone else uses.
     
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  18. Elrond

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    I like this idea getting random ''tokens'' from salvaging crafted gear ,that can be applied on crafted gear to designate the piece as part of X set . Like getting a ''pyro token'' can be applied on any crafted piece and its now set piece .
     
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  19. Rowell

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    Quickly threw together a fast UI mock up of alternate crafting system I described earlier in this thread.[​IMG] Of course, the numbers and skill names are all made up as fillers.



    (Don't know why image is not loading in forum. Can Right-Click, then select "Open Image in New Tab" to see it).
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
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  20. Numa

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    It just struck me that the recent sharp increase in reagent use associated with AoE's and artifacts like the Warlock chain and the Ankh of Sacrifice may provide an opening for a number set bonus pieces to provide an alternative.

    Think of the artifacts as very powerful but reagent guzzling oldtech. Newtech set pieces would be powerful ( though less powerful than the Artie's) but MORE efficient reagent wise

    Doesn't it make sense that the master craftsmen of Novia would be able to reverse engineer *some* of the power of the artifacts then use new techniques to add a bonus feature (efficiency)?
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
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