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  1. Crowquills

    Crowquills Avatar

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    @Chris you wanted my opinion clarified on bard? Here it is. I am spec 110 just for the savage
    sonata crit mod and to 6 stack.

    -Shouldnt have savage sonata stack with other crit damage buffs or fireflies. Its just too STRONG. Atonal Aria is broken but when fixed, this will break the game further.
    -Shouldnt have melody of mending be so OP. It negates the need for real healers and also makes them OP when the bard has spec from the +%heal other bonus, this is being exploited by tamers.
    -Psalm of Stagnation shouldnt be more powerful than ice mages.
    -Rhapsody of Recovery shouldnt work with air shields. Multiple bards should not be able to cross stack multiples for everyone in party.
    -Mesmerizing melody needs to have the resistance from the CCresist buff apply to it so I cant permantely mezz players/mobs.

    Also #NERFTAMING
    :p

    Obviously fixing all this would kick the CRUTCH right out of a lot of people's hands. But that is the consequence of leaving broken systems unchanged for so long. You can blame me openly for the nerfs if you'd like. I really wouldnt mind. :D
     
  2. ultimaonline77

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    I don't play bard, but i have seen what a bard can do in group. It makes the group way over powered.
     
  3. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator Ambassador SOTA Developer

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    Fixed the charge time issue on QA. Some of those skills are getting adjusted. Bards are supposed to be powerful BUT only if in a group. Investigating other suggestions
     
  4. Superbitsandbob

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    Will an experienced bard member of the team be thoroughly testing the changes before they go live? The worst changes are often done because of what the 1% of top players can achieve which then leaves it unplayable for more casual players.

    Also does your statement about groups hold for solo players with pets? Bard will essentially become pointless to a solo player after changes? Some of the issues seem to be when bards are in groups because of stacking. Maybe look at the stacking issue as opposed to just nerfing everything into oblivion.
     
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  5. Restless

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    The idea that catnip has anyone experienced in gameplay is laughable. Did you just start playing sota? There are countless posts and one of the guys from NBNN has asked for it for years.

    Bard has been left ridiculously op just like charged shot archery for far too long. It needs a much harsher nerf than what is on the test server. Duration needs to scale with stacking and 6x anything should be only 25% the power it currently has.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
  6. Crowquills

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    You're comment offends me. /s
    There is absolutely nothing that I am doing that other people cant do. Its not about lvl. Mesmerizing melody can be kept at lvl 1 and be as powerful and useful to me. Doesnt take a top player to test this or notice this or use it effectively.

    Taming + Bard solo has opened a can of worms. Its a god damn botter/scripters dream now. Nerfing it to oblivion has been long overdue. Botters/scripters can run around and mine all day spamming mesmerizing melody with a nightmare pet and get insane amounts of ore without any risk what so ever... #DeleteBardSaveTheGame
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
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  7. Crowquills

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    If you dont want to nerf it, at least make it so you NEED party members for it to be effective, where 12 player group = 100% bard spell effectiveness. This would totally kick the crutch out of tamer/bards like me, for sure and I would rightfully expect an huge outrage from solo players. I would love to see bard tree really turn into a group thing. But I think its too late for that. You let this go on for too long imho. Wouldnt want to make the game harder for the 99% amirite?!? Soloing the spider queen with savage sonata should be doable by everyone amirite?!?

    Whatever you do, you are stuck between a rock and a hard place. I dont feel bad though :p
    Good Luck
     
  8. Crowquills

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  9. Elrond

    Elrond Avatar

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    That spider boss needs a HP increase..should be 5 min with a party or 30 mins solo , also mesmerise on 3-4 target max ? not all.
     
  10. Echondas

    Echondas Bug Hunter Bug Moderator

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    @Crowquills why do you split your scrolls into small stacks like that?
     
  11. Crowquills

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    For pvp ransoms, everything in my inventory is under 5 units per stack.
     
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  12. Crowquills

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    Doesnt really matter, nobody bothers with her cause her loot SUCKS.
    I've been killing her non-stop since bard came out and havent looted a single item. The data might not show me killing her because my pet always gets the kill shot.
    Either I'm cursed by the devs or the loot table is broken... but I hear noobs go in there and get spider belt or staff on first loot...
    Increasing her HP will just raise the price of spider belts, xen staves and xen bows.
    Changing the mezz to 3-4 targets wont matter, can do the same with ice field and just kite them easier since I retain aggro on them better. Mezz is just stupid easy.
     
  13. Elrond

    Elrond Avatar

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    Loot has always been an issue... id like to see you post some suggestions on what loot you should get from the hardest boss in the game every 4 min ? My suggestion would be 50 spider silks at least ...among other things .

    The market will adapt / it always does .

    I proposed Hp as it seems the most reasonable ..that boss has like 30k hp ..from your 1k -2k hits thats 30 hits , give or take ,to kill a boss that should have been group boss ..seems to me players again went ahead of the game ..the options are ..either increase resists for the monster which results in a direct nerf of all player gear as youll end up doing less damage ...or increase its hp 10 fold and dont bother touching anything else ...

    Unless its not suppose to be a group boss ...if it is the scale is out of whack -players do 1.8k dmg and the group boss only has 30k hp .

    I used to love raiding in wow ... you couldnt solo boses there because even if you did everything right you wouldnt have enough damage to kill the boss and eventually the enrage timer would drop you .

    In sota all bosses are soloable or 2 man team ...no wonder none is looking for groups to kill the spider queen or the clockwork dragon or other high valued Chiefs ... I think we should move away from having all bosses just one shot players ( or 2 shots) to more of an attrition fight ...Id like to see more aoes from bosses that cant be avoided (not much 100-200 dmg) just to keep party members from falling asleep thinking tank will do all the work i just press the button that does dmg......we should need 1 or more tanks, couple of healers and lots of dps in a party ... not 1 guy trying to them all ...even if its possible . This will encourage people to group more ,consume more potions during fights ... For my part i say make all bosses least 200k hp ... allow 1 tank to tank them properly but every 15 mins if the Boss is not dead increase its damage by 50-100 % .

    and... allow all party members to roll for the boss loot ...the guy who loots first shouldnt get it all ...its a party afterall ...kinda defeats the purpose if you are giving the loot to 1 guy only .

    To summarize Chris needs to determine which bosses are what and implement proper mechanics for each category

    - solo
    - party ( some aoe features 200k plus hp )
    - raid ( lots of aoe features 400k plus hp )

    As players we get alot of satisfaction in dealing 1k + dmg (even if its a 200k boss) then dealing 300 dmg to a 30k hp boss ...all games understand this and they mitigate it by greatly increasing boss hp .
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
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  14. Crowquills

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    Couldnt have said it better myself, I agree with everything here. Only difference is that maybe I would also make avoidable AoEs that require player to move out of in conjunctions with those that you cant to encourage bringing good healers so dps'ers can focus on dps.

    If the boss goes to 200k though and thats that, the loot needs to reflect it. And in all honesty, my build doesnt worry about healing, I can stand there and kill a 2000000000000 hp boss with the amount of negative healing I do with festering, my pet poison and my punctures and skewers. Even with my paltry amount of focus, it doesnt matter, drink a potion. My bard buffs dont require focus, are infinitely recastable... my pet will never tire... my sonata in conjunction with fireflies and berserker stance is how I get big crits... but my pet also crits for 2000s just with firefly and sonata. The bosses definitely need more AI and the devs could expect noobs to cry bloody murder if they made the game harder because of me... it wouldnt be the first time and I honestly dont care. Cant have pathetic bosses and think that will attract guilds to try harder and play more...

    For loot as it is, as you said at least 50 spider silk, maybe 10-20 venom sacks... or maybe just have it drop the same kind of stuff like dragons.... gems and potions are fine loot. But as you can see in the video... killing her 100 times and getting 1 silk 1 sack and a spider leg just drives me insane.... and drives anyone who isnt, away to greener pastures.
     
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  15. Lazlo

    Lazlo Avatar

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    I agree with the points in the OP, but I don't think spider queen is the best example. It's a super unbalanced fight that isn't really like anything else in the game and should be reworked regardless of bard stuff imo. It's always been a pretty dumb fight because there's a zillion mobs with poison dot that all stack, making it a very high amount of damage to deal with if fighting conventionally...or you can just run around in circles and never get hit by anything. Strengths and weaknesses are good, but they shouldn't be anywhere near as drastic as that fight.

    I think there are probably a lot of issues that will pop up with bard skills that haven't even been thought of yet. You can pretty much do whatever you want with your gear and skills without lessening the effect of any of it, so there's quite a lot of possibilities. It'd be a lot easier to balance if you just got an effect when you played a song and lost that effect when you stopped, but that horse might have already left the barn I guess.
     
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  16. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    Mezz works, my question is why is Mezz not working on the queen herself ?
    Which is what I wanted to see.
    I figured it would work on her young, but also figured it would work on her.
    If it worked on her, then she couldn't be damaged - which is how Mezz works for everything that can be Mezz'd.
     
  17. Crowquills

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    Damage breaks mezz, she is definitely getting mezzed, but that doesnt matter if she is getting beat down by bleeds and a pimped out tamed spider.
     
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  18. Adam Crow

    Adam Crow Avatar

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    I bet there are some loot limits per account that could be causing that. You should try having an alt skin at the end. Might be able to circumvent it, if that's what's happening.
     
  19. Crowquills

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    I have never successfully looted anything off the spider queen except when she first came out but I gave the belt to an archer in the guild. I've tried testing multiple ways, such as what you said with an alt, and that doesnt seem to work. I am convinced that I am cursed.
     
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  20. Adam Crow

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    I wouldn't say that is out of the question. I've always thought there is some kind of basic loot attenuation but then something else that exists that's a bit more nefarious. Like at a certain point you cross a line and those drops that were very rare before are set to 0%. And not like a global 0% - just for your character and whoever else doing the same thing.
     
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