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  1. Echondas

    Echondas Bug Hunter Bug Moderator

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    Laz and Jack featured on the show once there was a guy farming the heck out of UT and hit a loot attenuation - so it seems like a real thing.

    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/forum/index.php?threads/responded-loot-attenuation.156124/

    https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...t-cap-added-in-r62-confirmed-by-chris.151919/
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2020
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  2. Chemeck

    Chemeck Avatar

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    Wouldn't the boss with just higher HP still be soloable? It would take longer, but as long as you do the dmg... I guess boosting hp regen to the point where 2k dmg hit won't be enough is a more effective way.
     
  3. Superbitsandbob

    Superbitsandbob Avatar

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    You must be pretty thin skinned then. My comment was aimed at the fact that this has happened before. I never said singing Melody over and over again required any great skill. Although to be fair, watching the video I am not sure I would consider your character average. I thought I had a lot of points in taming but your spider pet has 1000 more hit points that mine. It's not like just any tamers pet could do it.

    I find it odd that in a game where we essentially have different builds that are capable of doing all the content and unlimited power potential to level all the skills, we pick out individual trees for nerfing when the whole system needs changing. Comments like "nerfing to oblivion" is just hyperbole considering it is a game with a single player/solo element and no real power curve and smacks of more to your motives.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
  4. Elrond

    Elrond Avatar

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    Not if you get hit with enrage timer ...even if you can tank him or do the 2k damage .... if you dont kill it in time ...stuff gets serious...which is why i proposed 50%-100% dmg increase and maybe increased hp regen after an amount of time.
     
  5. Crowquills

    Crowquills Avatar

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    "The /S is known as the sarcasm switch. When you are typing a post use it at the end of your post so people know you are actually being sarcastic." from the urban dictionary.

    I agree my skills are way up there. I would never be able to do this even if I put double the exp in any other tree other than archery. Also I only need 1 point in mesmerizing melody to pull this off and maybe 80 savage sonata with no spec required. The big point of my #nerfbard post is the fact that such little exp is required in just 1 tree to effectively break the game. The same concept can be done in any hard room of the game. Savage sonata on a tamed pet or an archer or any melee is the greatest buff by far in this game and is absolutely insane to not have noticed this in its creation. Fine its episode 2 content and whatnot... whatever,... but when compared to everything else... we can see the insane difference in value instantly. If most people cannot understand that, there is nothing more to say. Just compare it to fireflies for a sec and see how OP it is... IMAGINE Atonal aria worked too..... compound all those together with a tactics specs berserker stance and I would be critting for 4k-6k easy. It's just not making any sense when you look at other trees in comparison. This should be a tree to buff BIG groups, not myself and a tamed pet. That is just my opinion, my 2 cents.
     
  6. Crowquills

    Crowquills Avatar

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    She does get an enrage timer for a minute, it barely phases my pet. She get increased move rate (useless) and +50% damage. My pet regen with 6x frenzy is pretty strong at 150 skill and my pet heal just compensated too easily for that enrage.
     
  7. Elrond

    Elrond Avatar

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    I know the mechanic is already ingame ... but doesnt seem to create too much difficulty to players..... when i was fighting cabalists for example they would enrage at some point but wouldnt matter much ...guess thats where Chris could make things more ''interesting'' .
     
  8. Crowquills

    Crowquills Avatar

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    I do get loot attenuated before I even reach a cabalist in a seige, can do a siege in 5 minutes with Nightmare pet. Its annoying and I feel like I will never loot a hood of a cabalist because of how shortsighted this concept is... the problem with the spider queen though is that she doesnt drop more than a silk or two and a leg... there is no way im getting loot attenuated there since I dont even touch the other spiders at all. I am either super unlucky, or the whole mechanic is broken. I could start a party right now and have noobs come and loot belts galore... The whole system makes no sense. Why would I even bother playing at all if I cannot go out in the world and loot what I need/want? Why should I need other random noob players to come spend they "karma" on the spider queen and get the best loot in the game? How do I fix my own "karma" issue or whatever the fook it is? I get that they want to prevent exploiting. Just tell me how to do the damn thing and KNOW how I am not going to get screwed doing it. I dont want to help noobs get crazy loot or make a new character just to be able to finaly get something off the queen. It just doesnt make any sense at all. And the idea that I am just getting unlucky yet other people have 15 spider belts in there bank is just absolute insanity. Why do they get to circumvent the problem and I dont? I've even tried kiting her for over an hour to see if there was a timer associated with killing her to fast with no luck. Just tell me what I need to do to finaly have the queen drop something after all the god damn hard work I do. Same applies to cabalists and dragons. The only dragon dropping loot for me are Aether dragons and that is probably because they are seasonal and the dev who cursed me forgot to apply it to those loot table... I have the exact same issue with taming artifacts off boar destroyers in southern drachvald spur. I can kill 1000 and only get 1 stupid wolf helm.... when a guildy goes there and leaves with 4 artifacts in under 2 hours...
     
  9. nikkon78

    nikkon78 Avatar

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    you went a Answer? Stop playing every day, make some time a break from a Week and you will see, if you come back after 7 days you get your loot. You are one of this guys that farme every day and with that your dorp Chance get down. it's the same with the yellwo bags. put them in you hous and dont play for two weeks. after that you logg in and open the bags, now you can see how much artifice you will get.

    And the tamer is not OP :)
     
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  10. Crowquills

    Crowquills Avatar

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    Tested this too. Doesnt change a thing. Left for months at a time and nothing changed. I just dont see why loot has to be based in such a manner anyways.

    I'm pretty sure that would be the case for exp attenuation too but it isnt...

    Oh and I know plenty of RMTer that get much better loot and they play 10x more than me...
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
  11. Bridge Troll

    Bridge Troll Avatar

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    If you are going to make bard suck, could you at least revierw the insane aggro it generates.
     
  12. ShurTugal

    ShurTugal Avatar

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    Your spider fight is a bad example of this mez skill being broke (which I agree it is) I am a tamer and I absolutely could NOT kill this spider in this way even with the mez skill being how it is because I have not dumped as much experience as you into my taming tree. I have a feeling you could achieve MANY things I could not based solely on the fact that you have so much experience to play around with. this is the problem with all you elite people. You have so much experience to create builds and decks with that it puts you out of touch with average players. That being said, I agree the Mez skill needs to be reworked....
     
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  13. Chris

    Chris Tech Lord Moderator Ambassador SOTA Developer

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    BTW, I did make some balance changes to bards other than fixing the bugs but I did not include them in the initial release since we had so little testing on QA due to... issues. :/
     
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  14. Crowquills

    Crowquills Avatar

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    The real question everyone wants answered is: did you fix atonal aria? :D
     
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  15. Superbitsandbob

    Superbitsandbob Avatar

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    Can I ask what is it you are seeing with Savage Sonata? I've run it up to 100 and started putting points into spec but only about 60, and what it does for my pet is occasionally double his crit damage. I did some fights on a Razor Destroyer with just Frenzy and Flies and then included SS. Often the crit damage was about the same as without SS because there appears to be a massive average range. It basically made the fights slightly less tedious. This is on live by the way. Can you provide data on what you are seeing and your AL and other skill levels as surely this is the minimum I would want from someone, as a developer, asking for skills to be changed. A doubling of my pets crit damage occasionally is not game breaking. Also is the issue with tamed pets or groups or BIG groups or both? Essentially as a dev I would ignore NERFTHIS posts without some data.

    Your video shows mez being broken but little else other than that you have a pet that is probably beyond most average players.

    Also can you explain why Barding should be a tree for a BIG group listening to music as opposed to someone and their pet? Maybe an ability where everyone who gets involved in the music chains the power higher?

    Chris can you explain, as the development process is very open, what you are basing the changes on? No data has been provided and the video only shows that Mez is broken (although I would argue a specced bards mez should have a very high chance of success). Have you changed Savage Sonata for example? If so, what was it based on? Was it based on a tamed pets crit damage being doubled every so often? Is it based on what a few high level players are doing with it and how does that impact lower level players? Players who are generally capable of achieving more than most anyone else anyway as they have accumulated so much XP that they don't know what to do with it so spend it on finding powerful builds (which the systems allows by the way with no limits)? Are you just changing numbers down? Thanks.
     
  16. Crowquills

    Crowquills Avatar

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    I am seeing what everyone else is seeing... its a stupid exagerrated over-the-top insane ridiculous area of effect buff... what more do you want? My stats? My Savage sonata in the video is at 142 and my useless bard spec is at 110. Most my taming stuff is now at ~145 and taming spec at 130. You can watch my pvp video and see my skill trees if you dont believe me (I reposted it just for you):


    Crit damage CANNOT be the same with SS as you said, if that is what is happening in your case its probably because you arent noticing that you pet is not standing in your SS perhaps.

    Now with the new release, my savage sonata does even more buffing at 6 stacks... Congrats @Chris . You buffed me hardcore. Even at 6 stacks its still 1.8 sec cast time.

    Back to @Superbitsandbob , If you think doubling of pet crit is ok, fine. But its not just that. Its the cheapnes of the amount of exp needed to get it. That is my only issue. When I look at skills like this, I always look at it from a value perspective based on the amount of exp needed. You can stack it with berserker stance and tactics spec and 6 stack fireflies. To get the equivalent amount in tactics spec with berserker to reach the amount I do with savage sonata is ludicrous. You cant do that with any magery in the game, only ranged and physical. This will create a clear imbalance. If that is fine... go ahead keep the game-breaking mechanics... I'll keep killing dragons in under 20 seconds... I'll keep letting my pet solo an entire zone will I watch netflix and click 2 buttons without looking. If that's fine for you, np. Keep the game-breaking mechanics.

    This isnt the first time stuff is implemented without knowing what limitations should be set.

    What do you mean changing the numbers down? I play the same game as everyone else. If you add crazy mechanics and trees like the bard tree, do you expect a high end player to get LESS EXP? Do you expect noob players to catch up? Do you expect me not to use the same mechanics that everyone else is using? I have almost every skill in the game and play different classes all the time. There is almost no point for me to do anything other than fire mage and tamer/bard/polearms/archer. I can also tank. I use the soft caps properly which allows me to do everything. This isnt about being high level. Players with higher exp IN THE WRONG PLACES cannot do the spider queen. Because they arent using stupid OP stuff like bard and taming and puncture or fire stuff. I honestly dont care if they dont nerf whats needed to be nerfed. I am just stating the obvious. If that upset people because they cant do what I do, I really dont care.

    The combination of multiple +critDAMAGE modifiers and the boost to str/dex from bard spells makes the tamed pets awesome. Problem is that is makes melee/archers insanely awesome. Add to that a tamed pet that everyone in my opinion should have because its also so awesome.... Makes the bard skills hard to ignore. Thats my issue. The only thing left for mages is fire.... How many Ice mages do you know? How many death mages do you know (that dont pvp)? How do they feel when they see archers/melee/tamers with bard buffs? Lets also remember this is a classless system. My problem is the amount of exp needed to greatly increase character with a simple bard buff that puts most other similar skills (berserker stance tactics and fireflies) to shame.

    Do you not see my pet not losing aggro? The only aggro generated by bard is the focus recovery and mending song and psalm of stagnation slow. Just dont use those and you wont get aggro. There is always a way. With great power comes great responsibility...

    My 6 stack bard spells dont increase in cast time... is this intentional? My 1 stack is not 10% of my previous bard spell. Is this intentional? Overall, bard got a buff.. I do like the changes, it makes it much more fun imho. I could see why you did all this... but like I said, the exp value of skills need to be considered for once and for all.
     
  17. Crowquills

    Crowquills Avatar

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    My pet can 1 shot anyone in the game... it stopped at 1882 only because that's how much Hit Points the player had. Is this ok...?

    This is of course with savage sonata.
     
  18. Superbitsandbob

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    I never said it was the same. I said it doubled the crit damage but the large variance in damage meant often it was around the same as without. My pet definitely had SS running.

    And that's fine. That wasn't your original stance though. You just wanted it nerfed. If you think it should cost more I agree. It's power should be more closely tied to the spec so to get the sort of effect we are seeing you need to be spec.



    Maybe you misunderstood. When I said changing numbers down I meant the dev teams way of balancing skills without much testing. I have no idea what your points about high levels players getting less XP and people catching up are about.

    The issue here seems to be somewhat related to using all the skills in combination with SS pushing things over the edge. I agree that many skill trees are redundant but that is true for may MMO's. The combat system in general has needed an overhaul for years. I don't see it ever being effective though while we have this no skill limits in place.

    I feel you are trying to ignore the amount of xp you have in skills as not relevant. It is. If only for the fact that someone who plays an average amount of time may want to play Bard, then gets nerfed, while the player with everything can just change on the fly to something else with little impact to their gameplay.

    The real nerf here needs to be to players power spread overall. The fact that you can make a deck with so many GM+ skills in is where the issue is. Most players using Mes would not be able to do the Spider Queen as they would not have so many other skills at your power level. Would you be willing to see a skill limit implemented in order to create a more balanced game?
     
  19. Superbitsandbob

    Superbitsandbob Avatar

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    No, but the PvE game should not be balanced against the damage done in PvP. Other games have a system with different damage variables in PvP. This one should do the same.

    Also that's the Nightmare special/magical attack right? What are the melee crits like. I'm surprised SS boosts magical type attacks. Feels like it should be non magic attacks only.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2020
  20. Duke Gréagóir

    Duke Gréagóir Legend of the Hearth

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    Hence why I am not playing a bard anymore. I usually solo play. I miss the Ultima Onine Bards skill!
     
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