Air Shield users

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Barugon, Dec 2, 2020.

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  1. Violet Ronso

    Violet Ronso Avatar

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    Yeah, but then you go into higher tier zones, or bosses like dragons, and your combat is much tougher, which actually balances it out, which means it isn't as OP as you make it seem. Also that requires huge investment, and you could still die. Fire is also one of the things that is considered very OP in PvE, it has been called out, and F'in fire mages actually ruin it for most other mages because instead of having a balanced resistance system, they made it so monsters have "Magic Resistance" equal for all schools, which means because fire is so OP, all other schools end up bein wet noodles most of the time.

    But no, you are right, being 100% invulnerable is not a reason to call something OP!
     
  2. Barugon

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    Just to be perfectly clear, a damage to focus transfer of 0.0 is over-powered. There isn't any context that you can put it in that makes it otherwise.
     
  3. AzazelReborn

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    King Robert posted that he took his Air Shield to 171 and he doesn't have 0.0 transfer rate. Can you explain to what level do you need to achieve 0.0 transfer rate and then tell me if they went past that level that they don't deserve it.

    How many players in the game have taken any shield skill past 175. This is close to 1.5 Billion or more into skill. How many players have even achieved this. This is an over sight with the developer and maybe a cap can be introduced but I don't see every archer in the game doing this.

    Dictionary definitions of overpowered say it is only usable as a verb, meaning "to overwhelm, defeat, or overcome,".
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2020
  4. Violet Ronso

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    Ok, so the dictionary definition of "Overpower" is that. But when you look into the definition of "Overpowered", which you can access through urban dictionary since it is a specific term used outside of it's verbial definition, here is what you get :

    And no, I do not think that someone who has played for an insane amount of hours should deserve the privilege to play a god in this game. No one should be allowed to take a hit that would do 4k damage and COMPLETELY ignore it, that is stupid, OVERPOWERED, and really not healthy for the game, because if Air shield can do that, literally

    everyone will work towards that goal, and then mobs will no longer pose any threat to any player who has reached God Mode. Tell me of ANY other skill, spell or mechanic in this game that allows to take 0 damage from any source of damage, no matter the number, and I can garantee you you will not find any. I dont care if someone spends 50 billion experience, no one should be invulnerable, and that is it.

    And if it is an oversight and should require a cap, that is because it is? I'll let you time to think this one through, I'm sure you can find the answer with all the information we've provided here!
     
  5. AzazelReborn

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    Can you tell me how do you quotes in bits like that I'll like to learn that technique pls?
     
  6. Violet Ronso

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    In the menu over your text when typing a comment, where you can make your text bold or underlined or colored, there is a group of 4 with the 1st icon being a smiley, the 2nd being an image, the third looks like old time film reels. The last one allows you to insert quotes or spoilers or stuff.

    If you mean how I simply quote part of your text, I simply highlight it as if I wanted to copy it, but when I'm finished dragging, a little "Quote" button will appear!
     
  7. Barugon

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    It's a combination of skill level and dex.
     
  8. Spinok

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    1)NO NO NO AND NO. PVP with air archer: In the present meta, if we don't talk about "ambush" encounters (so both PVP participants ready for pvp). Torpid will only help only two types of archer opponents: air mage, another air archer. The reason why it is its pretty easy, NO CHARACTER in-game can tank archer longer than 2 seconds without 0.1 air shield. Really auto-attack of top-end archer inflicts up to 1k+ dmg into 200 resistant targets in full plate, and aim shot just one shot 2k+ hp tank.
    So to kill archer you need to go into close range (torpid has bad casting range) (so to cast blink/engage opponent/night step) then cast torpid, then cast smth that kill it. Again if it is not ambush encounter and you are not air shild user your chance to do it before you will die is near 5% and you should be very lucky to get this 5% chance.
    2)PVE by air archer, the problem of air archer PvE is not just an air shield, it's a combination of glyphs that make it OP and not comparable with any other combination in-game: Combination of OP archer is well known - (savage sonata+tactics spec+0.1 air shield+rhapsody of recovery) what it does? If you have the top-end gear and top-end skills it will give you 10-15k EHP, your focus will NEVER end, you auto-attack will give 1k+ hits you aimshot will give the same high damage as Coup de grace. Really you can even ask Atos to check the highest damage by glyph in-game, I`m pretty sure it's Aimshot not Coup de grace or the difference is near 1k max.
    P.S. Really I understand why Airmage can be invulnerable in PVE, it damage is not very big, so you pay for this invulnerability. Air archer is another story, the highest dmg class in-game has invulnerability...

    The reason why 1) and 2) is true: I don't know what Atos was thinking when he made a Bard tree, he just broke all the balance in the game that was and finally kill the weak PVP base that it was in the game. Fixing any balance in this game should begin from HUGE nerf of bard tree. And there is another way - to use bard glyphs you should have a musical instrument in the hands, and when you put a weapon in the hands all effects of bard stops on all affected characters.

    You dont need it, 0.1+ rhapsody of recovery make you invulnerable as well.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2020
  9. Barugon

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    I've seen this in PvE; places like Eastreach Gap. There are people doing 10x-20x my damage and they're not even charging/stacking, just spamming. I can tell you that it's all due to equipment. You can go to offline and set all your skills to 200 and you will not even come close.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2020
  10. Violet Ronso

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    Ok so first off, I know english isn't your primary language, so could you please confirm what you are saying in the bolded bit :

    Are you saying : 1. Let's talk in a DUEL scenario, where both players agree to a 1v1 and then start fighting.
    or 2. Let's talk in an Open World PvP scenario, where players end up attacking each other on sight when crossing each other in a scene.

    If 1. is the answer, I think Grumpy has said this in one of his previous posts, he is not talking about a duel situation, he is talking about open world pvp, so potentially yes archers might be pretty much unkillable in a scenario such as this one.
    but if the answer is 2. Open World PvP, there are many ways to counter an archer, and Grumpy has mentioned being killed by others in this situation, and he is an Aircher. I have talked to players like Sara and Vesper, Sara who doesn't use magic (does he do an exception for Torpid Torment? I don't know, Grumpy might know this better than I), and both have told me this : Archers are strong, very strong, and they will usually change decks for an archer deck if they are fighting against a strong archer, so yes, they are very strong, but they also whip out a shield and fight lower leveled archers, or "weaker" ones with a shield and do it relatively successfully.

    I would really love to see an actual auto-attack on a full plate target dish out that much damage consistently, maybe I was doing something terribly wrong when playing an archer myself, but Auto-Attacks (not charged attacks) could not deal that much damage, maybe a lucky crit here or there, but honestly, 1k+ damage on an auto-attack is pretty much unimaginable for me seeing how weak auto-attacks are usually. Now archers do have Aimed Shot and Piercing Shot which allow them to do those massive hits you talk about, Piercing shot because it ignores armor, and aimed shot because it just deals chunks of damage, but auto-attacks? @Grumpy Krabnevir do your AA's do that much??? if so I want the gear you were using before your last upgrade, my gosh I want to go fall asleep in PvE scenes with that.

    Why can't water mages get this invulnerable state too then? Air Mages have 2 long distance damaging spells which reduce resistance, cause Stuns, and deals quite a decent amount of damage from what I saw when I roleplayed as Robert's pet, meanwhile Water Mages have 1 long distance damaging spell that slows and does decent damage, but in PvE, that spell becomes nearly useless as soon as you start fighting something that has some magic resistance, and Ice Field does not debuff resistance enough to make it work. I do not think low damage is an excuse to justify invulnerability, because you can use other magic schools in combination to Air to get both decent damage AND invulnerability...
     
  11. Joe Zhudarak

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    ALL Air spells have 20m range
     
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  12. Violet Ronso

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    Even discharge? So that makes it 3 instead!
     
  13. A'chelata

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    Me personally, I have not had much success with auto attack at all. I have heard these rumors of auto attack hitting for over 1K but I have never been able to reliably duplicate it with my own character. Maybe if you went with a super high strength build, but then you are losing most of your dex and in my tests, crit chance suffers with that build. I have also heard of some big hits with piercing shot, but never seen it or been able to reliably reproduce it in the actual field of fighting. Doing tests on a test dummy might tell you differences in some things, but it isn't representative of what's possible in real situations. Typically, I don't use piercing shot at all. I have tried, the supposed huge crits are super rare even with 5 stacks, and there's just no room in the deck to use it when the normal hits that don't crit are sub par. I use/stack rapid fire and aimed shot. Those are the only archer skills in my deck (1 disabling shot card, but not for damage obviously)

    I never use the bard mending spell, it's all I can do to work sonata in. These bard spells only last like a minute, and you have to stand in the circle of effect. It's just not practical for an archer to try to cast multiple bard spells and use other skills as well, you spend so much trying to cast prep spells and buffs and debuffs that you are not putting out real damage during that time, and then you have to move and you lose the effect anyway. Maybe if you had a pocket bard casting all those for you, but not one archer doing it all, just doesn't seem practical to me.

    As for pvp, I assure you, an air archer is certainly not invincible, otherwise, I would not have so many deaths. Yes an air archer can put out big hits, but any physical damage build has the option to also use beserker's stance (even air shield) as well.

    The absolute highest crit I have ever gotten with my current build on a NPC mob is a little over 4K, with an Epic Crossbow of Accuracy (super slow) and on a player, somewhere around 1500-1800 and that is rare. To say that an archer can hit for as much or more than coup de grace is just completely wrong. No archer has ever hit for 10K plus on something. With 35%-40% on your coup de grace, you don't have to get someone too low before coup de grace certainly becomes insta death. Yes, you have to get close enough to do it, but that's where tactics comes in to play. You don't stand in the open and let an archer shoot at you, you have to get in a spot where he can't reach you and force him to come into tight quarters, and then it usually ends very quickly. Mobility and air shield are the only defense I have. My damage resist is in negative numbers from beserker's stance.

    Not sure what the range on torpid is, yes it is a close proximity spell, but there again, the people I fight don't seem to have much problem stripping my shield frequently. Even without stripping it, while an archer is fighting he is using focus, you are damaging him, he is losing focus, pretty quick he can't use skills and has to run to chug potions, or trying to re-cast air shield (usually a quick 1 stack that isn't the same as 6 stack). Of course a .0 or .1 is a little different, but again, that's not the norm, and i'm not against a cap.
     
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  14. A'chelata

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    That's not really accurate. Shield does great against archers, and you make it sound like every archer can crit 2k on aimed shot any time they want to. Totally not accurate. I use aimed shot all the time, in pve it RARELY crits for 2k. So what happens the 80-95% of the time if you hit someone with aimed shot and it hits for 200? Fzol would want to test his build against my archer. He would put on his tank gear, with shield, use bolster balance and other defensive skills, I could put a steady output of attacks on him for 20 seconds and he would survive just fine and then kick my ass.

    The tools are there to use against any build, you just have to use them appropriately, that's what makes pvp so different. Tactics win, skills don't.
     
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  15. Barugon

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    And Gust?
     
  16. Spinok

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    PLS its just not true, in present meta you cant even run into the close range to the top end archer, on my eyes guy with almost 2.5k hp, with 200+ resistance died faster than I can say the words "who will win here"
    P.S. Problem is in the scaling physical damage scaling very well to the unbelievable levels, magic damage is not scaling. The reason of tis this a bard tree. There is no spell and crit(magical) in the bard tree. Half an year before Atos was fixed ATT scaling so when you go after 400+ att, its almost stop scaling. But physical dmg is still scaling ten times better.
    P.S.S. Ask you guildmate Crow, he was saying from the first day that bard tree is a bullshit and he was right.
     
  17. Barugon

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    This is more due to being able to get insane amounts of dex and base damage boost from equipment.
     
  18. A'chelata

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    I'm not arguing about barding, i never asked for it, but I will use ANY and ALL advantages available to me. That is what min/maxxing is all about.
    surprise attack, from behind, lucky to get big crit on initial hit, followed by 5-6 stack of aimed shot (that also happend to luckily crit), or rapid fire? sure, it's possible, but you and I know that almost never happens in real running pvp group battles in the fall. That's about as common as a stealth back stab sneak attack using all the same damage modifiers available to archers. It happens, it's not much of a factor or issue. Obviously you/he wasn't prepared, didn't have a shield or stance and other defenses up like you normally would if you weren't surprised.

    Archer is strong, but also weak in defense. Other builds also have their strengths and weaknesses. I'm not saying balance is perfect, but i'm saying things change when you get to very high levels with very good gear. That is called end game. Everyone has the time/ability to do the same if that is their driving desire.

    One point you are correct on however, mages do not have similar crit damage increase modifiers that are available to physical damage builds. That is probably really the biggest imbalance that keeps your 'average' mage from being more powerful and feeling like different mage builds can be strong.

    However, MANY hard core players have already proven any mage builds can be very strong and effective, but just like my archer build or Sara's tank build, it takes dedication and specific build with top end gear. As I said, I have a fire mage that burns like the devil. I can solo tartarus maze wave battle pretty easily including bosses, I can solo tartarus zombie wave room while snacking on cookies and milk. I've also been burnt to a crisp on my archer by another fire mage with same power levels (i don't usually pvp on my fire mage, I just love archery, in game and IRL, it's my extension of myself) so I sure know what it feels like, and it hurts.
    I also know what it feels like to get hit with stone arrow from earth mages that just blows me out of my boots.

    Many players have proven that other builds are just as strong as the archer build, I agree they need some crit damage bumps as well, but don't act like archer is king above all. It isn't. The biggest reason it seems that way is because an archer can attack you before you can reach him. Seems like he gets a head start, but again, turtle up, close the gap, draw him in, and it's over very fast if you know what you are doing once you get within your battle range. I have had it done to me plenty of times. Torpid Stun archer dead, it is really that quick. As i said, my damage resistance a negative number, avoidance near zero, strip my shield and all i have to hope for is a dodge or 2. If you make an archer so weak that the range is no longer an advantage, every melee or mage will just run straight at him and kill him. So why have archery?
     
  19. Barugon

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    If your damage resistance is negative then that's a bug. It should clamp at zero.
     
  20. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Well, I don't think we've heard anything about plans for air shield, but it looks like (via Twitter) aimed shot is getting a nerf.
     
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