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Remove NPC schedules

Discussion in 'Wishlist Requests' started by Barugon, Dec 22, 2020.

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  1. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    I was in Etceter on my alt, redoing the main episode one story. I just got the black iron ore for the harbormaster and right at that moment, it switched to evening and all the NPCs (including the ships captain) started running toward their beds. I know that the NPC schedules were implemented for "immersion" but making players wait for 15 minutes before they can talk to an NPC is truly unfun.

    I personally feel that this is a mechanism that adds absolutely nothing to the game.
     
  2. kaeshiva

    kaeshiva Avatar

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    Agree 100%. NPC schedules have been one of the most frustrating 'features' since the beginning. Any mechanic that forces the player to tab out of the game for 10 minutes to wait for a key vendor or quest NPC for "reasons" needs to be re-evaluated. That's a good way to lose people's attention. Not to mention, the other problems these schedules cause, such as hysterical NPC pathing if you interrupt them en route to their scheduled place (I once had the deco vendor in Resolute going up and down the stairs at lightning speeds for 10 minutes). Also they bug out if you talk to them while they are asleep (shop not open) and wait around and try to talk to them again, a lot of the time they still wont acknowledge you, forcing a relog and another load screen.

    Its a feature that is so hated I'm really surprised its still even a thing.

    I just don't see what benefit these schedules have. They don't make me feel immersed, they make me feel irritated, when an NPC is not where it is supposed to be. Confusing as a new player, annoying as a veteran player. Consider we don't have other navigational guides such as (functional) maps, minimaps, functional waypoints, or any other indicators, so remembering where someone was and returning there is really the only thing you can do.

    Schedules don't make the world feel 'alive' or add any immersion value for me, with the only possible exception being Ardoris when folks come out to the plaza in the morning and start going about their exercises. I'd say scheduling these sort of activities are probably fine, but vendors and key quest NPCs should be left alone. If we -must- have shops close for the evening, then they should at least lock their doors so people aren't misled into thinking they can actually accomplish what they need to do. These sorts of 'operating hours' mechanics work in single player games where the player can rest/accelerate time - not so much in an MMO.

    Sota has a lot of these little 'interesting' features which sound good on paper but fall over hard in practice, usually resulting in the player being forced to sit and do nothing for a period of time. Nothing is more exciting than sitting for 20 minutes waiting for an NPC to be in the right place (or a shadow to be in the right place...) or watching a refining bar go 700 times. ;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2020
  3. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    Not to mention that it's a virtue hit.
     
  4. Echondas

    Echondas Bug Hunter Bug Moderator

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    Personally, I am torn on this.. back in the single player Ultima days, this kind of mechanic was novel and kind of fun and cool.. but now in the ADHD gaming world, it's not..

    IMHO the core rules of any game are to be fun and avoid having the player leave the game for any reason (alt-tab). This mechanic adds a sense realism yet forces the player to potentially leave the game to do something else while waiting ..

    I am inclined to agree that this should be removed. The NPC should be approachable at any time to complete the quest.. the virtue hit (very minimal) could be the consequence of the (poor) timing.

    ..add some flavor text to the dialog to reflect the potentially poor timing, for example..but let the player progress.. and have the NPC be in a different location (in bed)..
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2020
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  5. Violet Ronso

    Violet Ronso Avatar

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    This sounds like a great solution. Its true, for me, and it happened last night while trying to do some crafting on my single player character, I was in Etceter as well, and the NPCs all went to bed on me, well guess what? I went to bed too, called it a night cause I was not gonna wait for those darn npcs to wake up.
     
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  6. Isabel Ayin

    Isabel Ayin Avatar

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    What if instead of eliminating the schedules of the NPCs, substitutes are added?
    Every blacksmith, carpenter, even every banker, fulfills his work schedule and when he retires to rest, he is replaced by a "coworker." Wow, Zangoff has gone to sleep, but wait, here comes his partner Joster!
    In this way, the immersion would be maintained, the NPCs would have their rest and work hours, and we could continue with our task.
    I don't know if it would be difficult to implement in the game, but this is an idea.
     
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  7. Sannio

    Sannio Lead Quest and Level Designer Moderator SOTA Developer

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    Thanks for all the feedback everyone! We've made improvements to NPC schedules since they were implemented and will continue to do so over time, especially on a case-by-case basis. on Here's some backstory about NPC schedules--specifically, those schedules that relate to NPCs going off-duty.

    When we first implemented schedules, we added them to as many town-based NPCs as possible. NPCs now needed off-duty areas, so we tried to find homes for everyone. Sometimes that meant they walked home for a block or two. This was terrible so I set about to update many common NPC buildings to have both a business area (near the entrance/downstairs) and an off-duty area (near the back or upstairs). This kept the NPCs people were looking for in the same general vicinity no matter the time of day.

    Off-duty hours were originally 3/8ths of the day. Later, we reduced off-duty hours to about 1/8 of an in-game day.

    We decided that some utility NPCs should never have schedules that take them away from their point of contact, namely town criers, bankers, and trainers.

    Some NPCs, like merchants, will not trade with players while they're off-duty. Early on, we decided that quest NPCs will never block their quest interaction while off-duty. (If one does, that's a very old bug and I ask that you please report it!)

    In a few rare cases, we do have some merchant NPCs swap their roles during the day as suggested. If I remember correctly, there are two blacksmiths in Harvest (or is it Estgard?) that are an example of this.

    We made improvements, but we could still improve more. I feel off-duty schedules are best when applied to non-critical NPCs and only sometimes to critical NPCs (e.g. merchants, quest-givers), particularly when it supports the story. In a case like the harbormaster, I'm removing his schedule so players don't have to chase him across town in order to have a chat. (Issue #68501)
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2020
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  8. AoiBlue

    AoiBlue Avatar

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    I like the NPC schedules a bit. However, I think the shopkeeper NPCs should spend more time in their shop, and maybe have a second NPC cover for them for part of the time when they are gone in the larger cities, leaving the shop vacant for far less time (maybe 5-10 minutes instead of 15-30 minutes).

    Ardorus is particularly bad with the long periods of time that shopkeepers are not in their shop.

    That said, I do like the idea of having the shop vacant for a few minutes a day, so that some less virtuous avatars have a chance to swipe things from the counters of shops.
     
  9. ephialtes

    ephialtes Avatar

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    I am glad thou art keeping the NPC schedules, which help the player feel as though they are living in a world. Although, I think that Shroud of the Avatar is not yet a living breathing world on the level of Ultima 7 or Red Dead Redemption 2. Here's hoping I'll get to see a day when there are videos about SotA's NPCs in the style of Following NPC's in Red Dead Redemption 2 for a Whole Day
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2020
  10. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

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    Unlikely. I mean, with the exception of morning calisthenics in Ardoris, how many NPCs do anything other than go to work and sleep?
     
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