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Two-Handed weapon skills

Discussion in 'Wishlist Requests' started by Serr Peters, Feb 6, 2021.

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  1. Serr Peters

    Serr Peters Avatar

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    I enjoy playing with two handed weapons, for example Halberds and Two-Handed Swords.

    However, they are vastly underpowered compared to dual welding due to the increased speeds of one handed weapons. The increase in stats from MW/Enchant brought them a lot closer, but they are still something that you don't see any serious player using. (Unless they really try to stick to their character, like myself)

    I would love to see some skills, perhaps in the Tactics tree, that added benefits for using a two-handed weapon. They need not be active skills, passive would be fine. Just need something to make my extremely high level crafted two-handed sword kill at least as quickly as my crappy low level crafted dual swords.
     
  2. FBohler

    FBohler Avatar

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    That's a really cool idea.
    I'm a ranged player, but I would love to see some two-hander skills.

    Sounds fair to have these skills because both dual and shield wielders already have their exclusive set of innate and active skills. I think Tactics is the best tree to put those in.

    Some active skills could be in the lines of:
    - Crush through: chance to knock down if target succeeds parry/block/glancing;
    - Combo: like Rapid Fire, maybe using some RNG to help determining the number of strikes and making each hit in a row gain little bonus;
    - Cleave: attack the target and then for each different enemy within reach, the Avatar will quickly dash and perform a stronger attack, maybe being granted some defensive buffs while performing the skill and obviously being able to cancel it anytime - for spec add a chance to attack from behind rather than from the general direction of movement;
    - Intimidate: dex and/or crit resistance debuff;
    - Aggressive stance: base damage and move speed buff, maybe with some defensive debuff.

    For innate skills, there are pretty much infinite options, so anything would be appretiated.
     
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  3. Cathy Earnshaw

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    I think some innate skills for two handed weapons would be good also. I don’t think two handed weapons are comparable to using two one handed weapons at this time.
     
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  4. Arkah EMPstrike

    Arkah EMPstrike Avatar

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    I like the ideas, but i also disagree that 2 handed weapons are underpowered.

    Dual wielded bludgeons are not as good as a 2 handed torc bludgeon, but dual sylvan spears are better than a 2 handed halberd. Likewise dual sylvan daggers are better than a two handed sword.

    In all of these instances its because of the materials they are made of, but bludgeon also has a much better strength bonus for damage between 1 and 2 handed, while pole and blade have less of a strength multiplier gap.

    Before we further the gap between 1 and 2 handed bludgeons, perhaps it would be best to makea comparable 2 handed materialfor blades and poles like blugeon has, and increase thier strength multipliers a bit
     
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  5. FBohler

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    I think all the gaps between combat trees boil down to gear. If bandit + xbow of accuracy didn't exist, ranged would probably be underpowered.
     
  6. Violet Ronso

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    This, and the fact that 2 handed weapons hit more targets at a time compared to their 1 handed counterparts makes me disagree with OPS suggestion.

    More components should make their way into the game. As long as their introduction helps balance things out in some cases (ex 2 mossy handles is clearly better than 1 mossy handle in 90% of cases (exception being IMO with Mauls) the difference between 1h and 2h should be fine.
     
  7. FBohler

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    If hitting multiple targets grants advantage, then ranged is pretty much underpowered.
     
  8. Violet Ronso

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    You have about 50 other threads where you are complaining about this, try to stay on topic for once, let's give people a chance to argue their case on 2 handed skills instead...
     
  9. FBohler

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    Didn't you read my first response to this thread?
    I was only trying to make you see your faulty logic.
    That being said, enough ad hominem.
     
  10. Violet Ronso

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    People are mentionning that 2 Handed versions of a weapon style are under performing compared to their 1 handed counterparts, considering they have a component or 2 extra, and 1 extra skill. I simply stated that those weapons have more targets. Hitting for 50 dmg to 2 targets or hitting for 40 damage to 3 targets, there is a clear difference. When fighting bosses, you would rather use the 1 handed weapons, while fighting groups, you would rather use the two-handed weapon. It isn't faulty logic, its combat strategy. I'm simply trying to make people realize that sometimes that number that pops up when you hit isn't the whole picture, and I was trying to show people something more to it...
     
  11. FBohler

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    So by your own logic ranged tree is slacking behind because there's no dual wielding to enable strategy against groups. (Just to make it clear, I don't agree with this statement, I'm just trying to understand your logic)
     
  12. Violet Ronso

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    No, if you want an example of the above but for ranged, here it goes :

    Ranged has 3 weapon types, short bows, long bows and crossbows. All 3 have their own differences, and one could argue that short bows clearly have the short end of the stick in this relation due to less components required to craft, thus making them weaker than the other 2, but then someone else (me in the case of OP's suggestion) could mention that short bows have a faster base attack speed than a longbow, which could potentially give an advantage in certain scenarios.

    In the case of melee weapons, 1 handed weapons allows you to use a shield, or a second weapon, which can be an advantage for different scenarios, but also a disadvantage in others, meanwhile 2 handed weapons usually offer a stronger Strength modifier as well as an increase in targets hit, but with less components (ex. a maul requires only 1 handle, meanwhile 2 hammers require 2 handles). I was simply stating the possible advantage a 2 handed weapon has that the 1 handed weapon doesn't, much like how a Crossbow usually has more free attack charges allowing them to make stronger free attack hits.

    Hope this helps you understand.
     
  13. FBohler

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    Yeah, now I understand you're saying two handed must have some kind of advantage in certain situations.
    But said advantage doesn't seem to make the 2-handers any more viable, hence this forum thread.
     
  14. Serr Peters

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    This could just be a band-aid. But I would also like to see special crafting materials for more of the weapons, in particular the two handed sword and halberd.
     
  15. Sorgin Txakal

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    Not so much a band-aid but a feature that is missing. If people feel that 2-handed weapons are not viable despite their increased range and ability to hit more enemies compared to their one-handed counterparts, having some more rare components like an equivalent for bandit blades for two-handed, etc. would probably be a huge step forward in creating a deeper meta.

    As to the idea that two-handed weapons by their nature are not as powerful, personally, I always felt the opposite because of all the times I missed with a one-handed sword due to me misjudging the distance, enemies hitboxes not matching their mesh, or just dealing with very mobile enemies.

    Part of why I dropped blade spec though was to get into more of a combat generalist (red mage) role and being able to swap loadouts based on what I am fighting as I never felt that any one weapon loadout was sufficient to overcome all enemies.


    I know Chris has talked about more combos incoming in the future, I could image combos that would either take advantage of the unique characteristics of two-handed weapons and/or only become activatable when a two-handed weapon is equipped and vice versa.
    Examples could be:
    • A combo of spinning attack/whirling blades/ground pound & earthquake but only when a two-handed weapon is equipped
      • Doing more damage for a person wading into the middle of a group of enemies
    • A combo of knock down/ skewer / rend & gust but only when a one-handed weapon is equipped
      • Allowing a one-handed weapon expert to increase their range a bit
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2021
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  16. Serr Peters

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    Bumping this so "The Bearded One" can see it for ideas.
     
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  17. Serr Peters

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    So, when I did this comparison of dual-wield vs. two-handed weapons...I used the same base materials. (That is the ONLY way to get an accurate determination between two items)

    I used a Bronze 2handed sword made by a 140 skilled blacksmith and enchanted, and was pulling roughly 100 dps on my parser.

    I then went and crafted two bronze long swords (with a crappy skill of 23 MWing), MW'd and enchanted (with a skill of 40 or so). Point being, FAR inferior longswords. But these parsed at roughly 25% more dps.

    This is why I say that the two are non-comparable. If we had upgraded material for both 1 and 2 handed types of the same material, then we could compare those...but we don't.

    In closing: Please give me some two-handed skills. I would much appreciate it.
    (And I just want to feel better about whacking stuff with a two-hander and be able to use skills with it exclusively!)
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2021
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