FYI: archery changes

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Barugon, Dec 14, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    7,614
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Veritas Sanctuary
  2. Anpu

    Anpu Avatar

    Messages:
    7,944
    Likes Received:
    9,015
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Hemut
    My belief is out of combat move speed is really about convenience but by giving players that convenience we've made combat too chaotic. I believe this will leave the convenience aspect and decrease the insanity during combat for PVE and PVP.
    http://twitter.com/catnipgames/status/1371890960465018881
     
    Lily Byrd likes this.
  3. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    7,614
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Veritas Sanctuary
    Fine, let heavy armor only block half as much damage when in combat. All that DR and DA is just a"convenience" and not an important part of the build.

    See, this is why I asked Elgarion what the bad news was going to be.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2021
    FrostII and Cordelayne like this.
  4. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    7,614
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Veritas Sanctuary
    I don't know. I'm not about to rage quit over a change I haven't yet experienced, but I'm getting tired of this. I want to play an archer, not becasue it's the OP build of the moment, but because I always play an archer. But Shroud has done such a crappy job of making "plain ol' light-armor archer" a viable build, that you have to rely on a bunch of unrelated extra skills, some of which are OP when leveled really high. And once again, instead of fixing what everybody is (over)compensating for, it's just more nerfs to the OP things, that kill the build for middle-of-the-road players.

    Hopefully this gets killed in QA. And if it survives, hopefully it's not so harsh it wrecks my build.
     
    FrostII, Barugon and StarLord like this.
  5. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

    Messages:
    15,679
    Likes Received:
    24,293
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    Same. I always play an archer and I'm getting tired of chasing my tail.
     
    FrostII likes this.
  6. Vesper

    Vesper Avatar

    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    530
    Trophy Points:
    18
    If you think archery isnt viable, you're doing it very wrong.
     
    Spinok likes this.
  7. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

    Messages:
    15,679
    Likes Received:
    24,293
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    That's not what @Cora Cuz'avich said but I think you know that.
     
    Anpu likes this.
  8. necronut

    necronut Avatar

    Messages:
    352
    Likes Received:
    878
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    If it wrecks mine, I'll adapt and be fine with it. Especially if it balances the game we both love and brings more eyes to it. Right now, there's no rock for these scissors, no paper for these rocks, and no scissors for this paper. Instead of rock, paper, scissors at all, we have archery, archery and archery.

    And instead of strategic battles to the finish, we have a race to the start and the RNG of crit.
     
  9. Xee

    Xee Bug Hunter

    Messages:
    2,199
    Likes Received:
    2,993
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Archery even with all these changes still works fine, it does change some of the mechanics for sure for PVP but PVE does not change much.

    If It was me I would instead have just balanced/normalized max distance for all spells / archery. thus evening out one of the issues with archers and fire mages over all other schools. Damage is already getting some fixes to start with Mages. Sounds like two new skills coming the one that boost spell dmg based on focus cost and the other is fixing the spell crit dmg modifier which sounds like it has never worked properly to being with. Melee than will need a little more up front dps and would have to use close gap utilities to get in range quicker. if that range = archery / spell ranges than you would have the balance.

    Thats just my thoughts and would open up all classes as more playable for pvp.
     
    necronut likes this.
  10. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    7,614
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Veritas Sanctuary
    It's not that it doesn't work, it's that I just finally started getting back to where I was before the last nerf. I am not some uber leet AL150 that plays forty hours a week who is hardly going to notice this.

    But whatever. I forgot, nobody gets to be mad at changes that impact them negatively, and we're all terrible people if we don't just shrug and move on without saying a word. I'll git gud, I promise.
     
    FrostII, Nubby, Cordelayne and 2 others like this.
  11. necronut

    necronut Avatar

    Messages:
    352
    Likes Received:
    878
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    Who's saying that? Let me know and I'll go take care of it.
     
  12. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

    Messages:
    4,648
    Likes Received:
    7,614
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Veritas Sanctuary
    FWIW- if this leads to significant improvements in Light Armor (because honestly, it's not an archery problem as much as it is a light armor problem) I would happily take this nerf right up the ol' chute.
     
    shadowvice likes this.
  13. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

    Messages:
    15,679
    Likes Received:
    24,293
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    75% reduction as there was already a previous 50% reduction while in combat mode.

    [edit] This seems to not be the case. See my post below.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2021
    StarLord likes this.
  14. shadowvice

    shadowvice Avatar

    Messages:
    154
    Likes Received:
    170
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Yeah, I'm in the same boat. I know I still have to work on how to learn more about how to incorporate my play style into the function of the game. Yet these changes happen a bit too much to keep up with. Doesn't mean I'll be heading towards the door. However, I'm going to spend a lot more XP again into whatever direction to equate to what I once had.

    What I think is interesting is how archery is seemingly always the culprit rather than increasing light armor in some way or actually making the dodge or sprint command (double tap movement) functional in game combat.

    So what is the approach that Chris is trying to go for? Realism? Fantasy? He says it's too chaotic but I have feeling that combat isn't a rank and file scenario or at least skirmishes probably are not that way. If it is realism, then why am I focusing my skills on the magical elements? If I cast Dash... it is often to get out and away from combat. I don't know... I just think there should be greater dialogue than just adding a change... if a dialogue is to be had.
     
  15. necronut

    necronut Avatar

    Messages:
    352
    Likes Received:
    878
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    Play QA, the changes are in. Everything's fine, and... I'm not getting killed in 4 seconds now. It's great!
     
    Lily Byrd, Anpu and shadowvice like this.
  16. shadowvice

    shadowvice Avatar

    Messages:
    154
    Likes Received:
    170
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Updating QA now :D
     
    necronut likes this.
  17. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

    Messages:
    15,679
    Likes Received:
    24,293
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male
    After trying it out on QA, I don't really see any difference. Did the already-in-place 50% for buffs just stay the same and bonuses from other things like equipment get reduced?

    [edit] After reading @Chris' tweet again, I'm thinking that is the case.
     
    Anpu likes this.
  18. shadowvice

    shadowvice Avatar

    Messages:
    154
    Likes Received:
    170
    Trophy Points:
    18
    So there is probably a better way to test this but... did the change (in QA) actually go through?
    Although I don't really have a great way of testing this (mostly through a stop watch). I don't see a difference.

    @Chris Am I missing something?

    The Knightmare Falls Estate Run (From Arador to the first Northern Lamppost)
    - The Arador Sprint!!
    QA:
    Non-Combat
    - Normal Run 12s
    - Spring (keyboard)- 10s - 100 focus spent
    - Sprint (Spell 113) 9s (One tap) - 4 focus spent
    - Dash (110) 10s - 4 focus spent
    - Dash + Sprint (Spell) - 7s (so close to 6)
    - Dash + Sprint (Spell) + Sprint (Keyboard) - 6s
    Twin Foothills (Boar area - Corner to Pine tree running past Boar)
    - Normal - 8s
    - Spring (keyboard) - 7s - 100 focus spent
    - Sprint (Spell 113) - 7s (One tap) - 4 focus spent
    - Dash (110) 8s - 4 focus spent
    - Dash + Sprint (Spell) - 6s (so close to 6)
    - Dash + Sprint (Spell) + Sprint (Keyboard) - 5s


    Prod:
    Non-Combat
    - Normal Run 12s
    - Spring (keyboard)- 10s - 120 focus spent
    - Sprint (Spell 113) 9s (One tap) - 4 focus spent
    - Dash (110) 10s - 4 focus spent
    - Dash + Sprint (Spell) - 7s (so close to 6)
    - Dash + Sprint (Spell) + Sprint (Keyboard) - 6s
    Twin Foothills (Boar area - Corner to Pine tree running past Boar)
    - Normal - 8s
    - Spring (keyboard) - 7s - 100 focus spent
    - Sprint (Spell 113) - 7s (One tap) - 4 focus spent
    - Dash (110) 8s - 4 focus spent
    - Dash + Sprint (Spell) - 6s (so close to 6)
    - Dash + Sprint (Spell) + Sprint (Keyboard) - 5s
     
  19. FBohler

    FBohler Avatar

    Messages:
    1,213
    Likes Received:
    1,264
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Combat is very chaotic, especially PvP.

    Making people slower will only help archers because the heavy armor users will take longer to reach them.

    Making people slower won't solve the chaotic nature of combat at all, for there are TWO instant teleport skills, one of them being totally random, and there's even a confusion spell with no real counter.

    Yeah, make people slower, sure!
     
    Cordelayne likes this.
  20. necronut

    necronut Avatar

    Messages:
    352
    Likes Received:
    878
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    Have you played QA? I have.

    The speed BONUSES are all that's in half. Not speed. Speed BONUSES.

    Crits were reduced and speed BONUSES were halved.

    Frankly, it's still not enough. When I was logged into QA, aside from the 4 people I was hanging out with, it was a ghost town.

    There's a lot of strong opinions here, but a complete lack of willingness to actually put money where mouths are and get on QA.

    The speed thing is perfectly fine, actually nigh impossible to notice. My concern with crit reduction, is that if it goes too far, it could favor heavy, and that if it doesn't go far enough, we're still a game where the pvp is archer vs archer vs archer vs archer because no non-archer class can win in pvp, period. Unless, of course, the archer doesn't know how to play SotA, then it's significantly less difficult to kill them.
     
    Xee likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.