well another nerf and out she goes! Bard tree -Atonal Aria

Discussion in 'Skills and Combat' started by Odyssey2001, May 12, 2021.

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  1. Odyssey2001

    Odyssey2001 Avatar

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    well 20-40% decrease in the most useful skill in the tree Atonal Aria. WTF you know its one thing to tweek here and there its another thing to remove 40% of a skills usefulness.

    Last week or so they nerfed the Air tree which was used to accompany another bard skill as high focus can be good for another bard skill but the nerf blasted that out of the water and now with this I see the bard tree only good as backup for a group. as its not good on its own now.

    If this was the intension from the Devs all along it would have been nice to hear about it before we invest in xp and time in it! ( unless they did and I missed it ) . although the XP well we can get back with the book of unlearning but the time --- well that we cannot get back and it is disappointing.

    I must admit one thing about some negative revues I read, it seems that every 2-3 months there is a tree or skill that gets such a big nerf that it trashes it and upsets all the users that invested in it, the disappointment is real and just because the data from a devs point of view seems to justify it we much ask if the Cure is worse than the illness.
     
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  2. Anpu

    Anpu Avatar

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    @Violet Ronso

     
    Last edited: May 13, 2021
  3. Coswald_Dirthmire

    Coswald_Dirthmire Bug Hunter

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    As a heads, up the Bard Tree (since it's still in it's balance phase) can be unlearned by moving skills to the red down double-arrows for a 100% return of XP instead of the usual 50%, so no need for the unlearning scroll (other than to get the XP back into your pool a bit quicker)
     
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  4. Violet Ronso

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    Hello @Odyssey2001 !

    If you don't know me, I am currently a Bard doing pretty much all the content in the game, solo, as a Bard, using Atonal Aria as my sole source of damage.

    To give you an idea, here is a video of me doing multiple different scenes with the new Atonal Aria numbers, which might give you an idea of what is still possible. You can skip to the end and see me fight in the newest T12+ scene, the Obsidian Panopticon, and barely sweat during the fight!



    Now, for the nerf, one thing you need to understand is that the 20-40% nerf could be better explained by the devs, but I already tested it out and reported back with the numbers before they went live. The nerf was 20% was removed off of the max hit of the skill, while 40% was removed off of the minimum hit of the skill, meaning your big hits are slightly lower, but your small hits are much smaller. For a skill that dealt as much damage as it did, this was necessary.

    2nd thing is, and I do not know if this was the original intention, but being an Episode 2 skill tree, Bard requires advanced mechanics, being that you need to dynamically stack the songs to get the most out of them. Single stacks are very weak, and charging them takes way too long, but if you manage to stack them dynamically, you will see a HUGE power spike (as mentioned in their tool tips).

    And last thing, the original intention of the Bard tree has always been to be a support tree, but for a lack of preparation, this did not happen yet. Bard skills are supposed to require an instrument to be held by the Bard to get the most potential out of it, which, when the time comes, will be another "nerf" for many, so I just want to warn you ahead of time, Bard skills are still in a testing phase and will change in the upcoming moments.


    If you would like a crash course on how I stack my songs to get as much power as I do, let me know, I am always happy to help, but as a Pure Bard, these changes to the Bard tree have felt very justified and I haven't felt like the tree was useless yet, on the contrary, I still find it very strong!
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2021
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  5. Odyssey2001

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    Hi all thank you for the responses, as it turns out its not as bad as I though as I too went to the OB Panopticon although it was much longer to bring them down I was still able too at the level I am at. ( I use a pet as well as I am taming spec ) so as a support tree I was able to support my Pet .. :) ...

    I guess my biggest beef is the lack of obvious information -- meaning unless you go through all the Friday recordings by the devs and read all update note ( which I do read every release notes ) you can easily miss info and reasons and answers for things that would explain why they are still doing what they are doing after such a long time... There should be a red link in the actual tree : " Under development dev notes " That when hovered over it tells you that it will bring you to a page that explains that its a episode 2 tree and its thoughts regarding it are a supporting tree that's under development and is subject to small/major modifications to the tree for balancing reasons ..

    This way its clear the tree is in a live testing state to all users and not to be disappointed if it gets nerfed in anyway or form.

    One could say its normal for all games to make modifications but one cant help noticing that there are nerfs in this game every 2-3 months that clearly anger players.. like the air tree that recently got a nerf to its air tree or whiskey having its price cut after years of it being the same price when sold to a vendor and this is just 2 as there are more that I cant think of but these are not Episode 2 content and this up and down seesaw stats just throw players off big time as time is invested and then clearly wasted when some of these changes happen.

    I have said this before, that small changes are easier swallowed by players than big ones and small changes with time also gives less reason to seesaw back and forth as its hard to anticipate all effects one stat can make over time.
     
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  6. Odyssey2001

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    so Min hit (-40%) - Max hit(-20%) --- This seems more obvious to me or am I wrong :)
     
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  7. Odyssey2001

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    Yes my left side is all unlocked and I stack with one hand very quickly, it would not be possible to do much without using an unlocked deck with this tree.
     
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  8. Odyssey2001

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    I liked you video btw, you explanation is number very very good.. thank you :)

    You also gave me ideas that I did not consider as I am light armor but a shield might come in handy actually and I though of a few others things I might try, I use speed to zip around the enemies actually going in and out of the corridors to refresh my health and restack quickly. I will try a few things like you mentioned like spell binders stance and see how far I can take it with cloth. I use a Pet as I am spec in it and I will support it as I should and now I will what a shield can do :)

    Thank you again for this video and the extra notes on things like ( can no longer cast torpid torment on the destroyers and other stuff ) .
     
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  9. Violet Ronso

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    This is exactly it!

    Thank you! I try my best, and I really like pushing the bard tree to its limits. Glad the video gave you ideas, and yes, shields are VERY strong nowadays, they are a worthwhile addition to any build that can use them without too much loss!

    Woot! There we go!

    Chris did mention on Twitter that he (and the team) will try harder to avoid these nerf "whiplashes" as he called them. I think this year is a year where we need to expect a few more of these potential big nerfs as they are bringing balance to the game, the changes the combat and crafting aspect of the game are going through are huge, and will potentially upset more players before they are done, but I think at the end, we will all be happy it did happen. I'm sitting back, watching things go, and testing them as they happen so I can provide my own feedback on them, with hopes it shapes the game for a better future! Don't give up, we are almost there!
     
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  10. Odyssey2001

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    Ya just saw this video and ya he does make it to the end however he is a good player as well and the are factors to consider! his level and can other builds be as effective ?

    If most of his power is in the bard skill and he is at 120 user level then YES nerf is certainly justified here but if he is at 150 and above in many many other skills + being a good player then is it really really OP ? Dont forget he nearly died in that last room! and most of his survival was due to his armor and health recovery which can be done by heavy armor and life spec and earth trees, and damage can be done by meteor shower + swords spec or Fire spec.

    If bard skill is suppose to be a supporting tree then yes this video surely says its in need for a nerf. but if its suppose to be like the others skill then one must compare it to the other trees and see how much damage/health is really be done and how much protection from damage ( survival ) can it have to be able to make a fair comparison.

    the fix for the AA going through the walls was necessary and very understandable btw.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2021
  11. Odyssey2001

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    I am glad to hear that they are taking these "whiplashes" into consideration. I wont give up but just hope we don't lose to many on the way there.
     
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