Path of Truth Questline: Needs Warning

Discussion in 'Quests & Lore' started by Iszela Argentoile, Nov 22, 2021.

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  1. Iszela Argentoile

    Iszela Argentoile Avatar

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    I went through and completed the Path of Truth quest line that lead me to into Artifice. I have to say, hands down, this is the quest that made me want to quit this game. I realize quite well this quest has been around a while, but it seriously needs a Trigger Warning: Violence Against Children.
     
  2. Cora Cuz'avich

    Cora Cuz'avich Avatar

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    Technically the violence is optional. Which was always the lame excuse for not fixing it, because it's stupidly easy to trigger that event unintentionally.
     
  3. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    There are a lot of things in this game that can happen totally by accident but reflect on your virtue. To me, virtue implies intent.
     
  4. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    Bingo !
     
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  5. Anpu

    Anpu Avatar

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    The trap trigger is completely avoidable. What people do is just run into the scene and not stop and actually look around. I stopped and completely avoided the trap trigger.
     
  6. Larawyn Skjaldmaer

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    I do not think it's a question of if the violence is avoidable or not avoidable. A certain amount of violence is expected in gaming. However, violence against children crosses the threshold of reasonable expected content in a fantasy based MMORPG. I would think a simple content warning when reasonable thresholds are exceeded would be an appropriate measure implemented out of respect for the mental health of the community.
     
  7. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Just because you are so clearly better than us doesn't mean it's not a stupid implementation. The simple fact that it can be triggered unintentionally, regardless of your desire, is what makes it dumb.
    This is a long standing Ultima tradition. If you kill the kids, that's on you, not the game. At least, that's the idea. This particular iteration is rather flawed, however.
     
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  8. Barugon

    Barugon Avatar

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    Yeah, like the Urchins in Tenebris Harbor or the Naughty Brats in East Sanctus Forest.
     
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  9. DaisyShimmer

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    I think the better debate question here is: Why would Shroud of the Avatar want to alienate players, particularly when it’s struggling to maintain a decent player base.

    This aspect of the quest is off-putting. Even the events before the mass murder of the children—which by the way choice constitutes “an act of selecting or making a decision when faced with two or more possibilities,”—players don’t know they are selecting anything when the event triggers. It’s a scam—not really a choice. However I digress, even before this event, the children are found in previous levels of the dungeon, in cages with male and female avatars which are scantily clad in clothing. The quest does have a weird, sexualized vibe to it—in my humble opinion—and a content warning could prevent players like me, who don’t want to be involved in such game play, an opportunity to avoid the experience.

    As for this being something common in Ultima. It’s an old game and the player based is ageing out. If Shroud wants to maintain players, they really should consider upgrading their status quo and/or stance, particularly with something like this that is a minor change which could potentially avoid someone from rage quitting.

    P.S. When you kill the Naughty Brats in the Sanctus Forest you do so willing. You do make a choice. In this quest you on accident step on a plate on the floor which kills the kids. Nothing willing about that.
     
  10. craftymethod

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    Easy fix, the community could reimagine the questline with conversationalists and recategorise this as a side quest :D
     
  11. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Unless you're an archer and you have autoattack on.
     
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  12. Time Lord

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    I never go there because of this. I'm more of a sunny happy day sort of fellow.
    It just doesn't set well within my day o_O~TL~
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Violet Ronso

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    Nahh they just take more time than most of us in regards to our environment, no need to be snarky at one of if not the most helpful person in this community...

    And they say the best part of Shroud is the community...

    PS. Remember when you would say that I was mean/rude, the tables turned REALLY quickly I gotta say, been shutting up for a while in regards to those kinds of comments and remarks from your part especially when aimed at me, but don't take it out on Anpu, Anpu is the #1 person who doesn't deserve this kind of ****. If you can't handle your emotions in regards to the game and the community, take a page from my book, go try something else and avoid posting here until you have something nicer to say...
     
  14. Cora Cuz'avich

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    If my comment was interpreted as any more than a good-natured poke, then I apologize.

    PS. If my calling out the condescending gatekeeping you and others have routinely and predictably directed toward me in the past is "mean/rude" but has resulted in you modifying your behavior toward me, I'm not going to feel particularly bad about it. Especially given that I mostly did so because I found the pattern amusing, rather than out of any real sense of hurt.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2021
  15. Cora Cuz'avich

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    Don't worry, that is the extent of it.
     
  16. Time Lord

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  17. Iszela Argentoile

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    This disturbs me greatly, too, and is included in my blanket request for a Trigger Warning. Perhaps others have turned a blind eye or are de-sensitized to it, but the implication of this type of child abuse is disgusting and absolutely crosses the line of acceptable content. Clearly, I am not the only one who interpreted that scene this way. Some may want to justify the content as being part of the Ultima history, but I find this excuse lacking strength. So much of our world has changed over the course of the years since those games came out. Our climate is different for what is okay and what is not okay (and this type of abuse, implicit or explicit, is never and was never okay).
     
  18. vulcanjedi

    vulcanjedi Bug Hunter

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    You know maybe this might need a little more discussion? A couple years ago they did remove the dead horse from the Solace Bridge starter scene based on new user experience feedback.
    Artifice is one of the oddest parts of the quest but I didn't think it was as bad as what can happen in Crooked Shank.
    They are always looking to balance things I don't think this would be any different.
    vj
     
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  19. Tirrag

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    maybe we can get some SotA eyes on this topic (if they havent seen it already) @Elgarion, @Sannio
     
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  20. Time Lord

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    I believe it's difficult to represent "evil" in a significant way, which is why we have such outlandish things as the children.

    I feel sort of resposible in a way within these subjects so I'll confess to what I know of how these things came to be...

    (Time Lord Confessions):

    • I was the one who first suggested that children be in the game here in our forums long ago before our world began.
    • I was one of the first leaders of the cannibal movement from before our world began.
    I became the leading poster of both of these, as I have always felt that in order to have greater good, there must be something comparable, to contrast with that good, otherwise, you just end up with too nice of a world, yet somehow the subject flipped on me. Both these subjects wound me in quite a bit of trouble with the woderful Lady Fire Lotus, our community forums rep of portalarium at the time. I think all in totall I was banned twice within the children debates and 3 times in the cannibals.

    I was called all manner of bad guy for even have suggested that children be represented in our game and even more for suggesting that a much shorter child size version of an character be made playable. Yet here we currently are with the "Faerie Belt". I wanted to see some children around towns to make things seem normal and never invisioned evil children. But here we are, faced with making mind poisonous choices in dealing with evil brats, yet devoid of many children in any towns. I thought we could occasionally see some dead children from some evil deed, yet now we see evil children, and I will go further to say we see more evil children in our game than we do normal or nice children, which does not ballance our world's representation very well. Did our world stop having children because most started coming out evil?

    (Contrasts in Evil)

    Cannibalism became normalized yet minimized so much that it's as normal a thing as the sun rise o_O Look into the many things we all consume and you can begin to see cannibalism's importance to our food chain o_O It's absolutely gastly how much human remains we consume!... and this is normal and not evil?


    :rolleyes: Some think/thought those two subjects are/were not linked yet they very much are, as they represent (children) the most vulnerable and (cannibalism) the things we do when we fight other humans even if we never actually eat them, we consume their lives and the products of their lives which is cannibalism without the salt and pepper...

    (Our Sterilized from Evil PvP)

    ...which is where PvP enters as a wicked or evil thing. Without any evil to fight, it's then also a stumbling block of PvP that there is no point, no good vs evil or this side vs that side to be had. Whatever this side vs that, it doesn't fit into the story which our game is based around.

    A world devistated by it's moon breaking and evil undead walking around terrorizing people... for me in my view, any PvP within that should revolve around cannibalism as the sides then set themselves as aligned with the spread of evil or the defence to help bring order and safety to those Novians who are the huddled masses.

    The players of this PvP style wish for reward in it, which is an element that has always held PvP from flurishing within our game, but it should be something that fits and something that can represent that evil needed in our world and not any evil children needing to be killed, choice or not.

    Just have a reason for all our PvP to start chomping down on some body parts and we'd have some good PvP in our game and a contrast in evil, but please lets stop relying on the harming of children for that contrast in evil, because it's a cop-out.

    But here we are, with even those who wear the shining cloak of the Avatar having achieved their herodom from having consumed human remains and as such cannibals and also may have killed and looted a few children.


    These are all I know of the origins of SOTA's misplaced evils...
    There must be a great evil in order to have a greater good!
    Need any more Corpse Wax for all those drinks Avatar?
    ~Time Lord~o_O

    [​IMG]

     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
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