Thoughts on high-tier tamed creatures (from Twitter)

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Anpu, Dec 13, 2021.

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  1. Anpu

    Anpu Avatar

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  2. Gwendolyn Obscuro

    Gwendolyn Obscuro Bug Hunter

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    Ok here are the comments I put in discord. I think Chris is more likely to see them there than here but they might as well be both places.

    When Chris says 'There is a level requirement but you can get there with trivial taming options' maybe he should do something about that first, before resorting to anything drastic. When the juvie dragons and fero wyverns were added in I made a bug report while they were still on QA that they are actually easier to tame than other destroyer level pets. This is still the case. And while the new creatures haven't made it to QA yet I would not be surprised if they end up with the same issue. (and speaking about new critters- aren't the fero arachnids already tier 15 spiders?)

    I'm not a fan of making high tier pets no trade, I'd rather see more bonuses for tamer spec if you want more of a difference for spec vs non spec users of pets. But I really think making them no trade except for the necklaces that are already out there with these pets is a big mistake. That is just punishing new tamers and having both tradable and non tradable versions of the same tamed creatures is just adding in a whole level of confusion to a game that can be confusing enough for new players to figure out.

    In the end I'll be a tamer no matter what changes get made, I was one back when pets were worthless and not gonna stop now. But I don't think this change would make sense. As a level 1 Blades user I could go out and buy and use the best sword in the game. At least taming you need to level the summoning skill. I'm all for pets being significantly more useful for tame spec players compared to not spec players, but making them no trade just seems to go too far when other things can be adjusted.
     
  3. simon1974

    simon1974 Bug Hunter

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    Hi,

    Im not a tamer, or i should say, my taming is only 120, so i cant really tame anything hight tier, and i really don't have any reason to raise it since i don't play with a Pet.
    What i am Thought is a collectionner, so it would really bugged me if you would go throught with it, for i would not be able to get one and add it to my taming pet chest collection.

    Just my thoughts on the subject.

    @Chris , That being said, keep up the good work.

    Diablotine
     
  4. queenbee

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    High level tamers make money selling their pets. Making them non tradable would force people to become tamers and there goes the whole taming economy. There are no restrictions to other high level crafters selling their wares to lower level players.

    The summoning restriction is already place, just set that level high for high level pets.
     
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  5. FBohler

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    This here is another instance of the tendency to balance things by removing capabilities.

    Removing capabilities won't help the game in any way. This will only punish newer players. This idea could be replaced with an actual system in which the master has a "bond" with their tamed creature, that works like attunement, and it's raised by adventuring together. If you tamed the pet yourself, the bond increases faster up to 100%.
     
  6. Aurelius Silverson

    Aurelius Silverson Avatar

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    I had to check and make sure this 'idea' had not been put forward on 1st April...

    As a percentage of my playing time, the amount of xp I have put into being able to use a decent pet to help me hunt is absolutely not 'trivial', I fear that is the view of someone who looks at the math, sees the top performing players at xp and gold gaining, and decides that's a good benchmark for what all the other players do - I honestly can't see Chris ever making this suggestion if he actually played the game, he'd know better what the experience of the game is rather than the technical and mathematical view of it....

    It's a horrible idea, I suspect the end result of that would be tamers taming one pet, or possibly two to have a backup in case of disaster, of the top tier pets that suit their playstyles - - and no more, ever, because - why bother? Can't trade them, can't sell them.... Meanwhile people who like the look of a high level pet think 'but that's a huge time and xp sink for something that isn't that great' (because if it was that great, the top pvpers and levellers would all be using pets to help them, and that's not true at all from what I have seen!) why would I bother doing it. For folks like me, who are not especially good at the hunting and adventuring part of the game, a route to help me have more fun by having 'help' from a pet is closed off. I don't see any game that benefits in any way from having things people can enjoy doing be closed off.

    I see it's just being considered for the 'top tier' pets - but I note the 'top tier' of everything, scenes, craftables, monsters and all the rest has risen a long, long way from just a couple of years ago, so when do 'top tier' pets stop being 'top tier' pets? Do they become 'retrospectively useable' when the next higher level scene comes out?

    In a different but I think probably fairly comparable context, would it make any sense to demand that a person who wants a high level set of armour or weapons can't buy or use them unless they also made them?
     
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  7. vulcanjedi

    vulcanjedi Bug Hunter

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    The only taming skill easy to GM is Frenzy. It was the first or second GM I got on my alt. But with lower level pets it doesn't seem to help much because the - damage resistance and + healing offset each other.
    I still consider my pet just a support creature to make things a little easier while I am adventuring. For that the newest pets don't seem to give me any advantages.
    vj
     
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  8. Yigg Endimion

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    I glanced at the no-trade thing, bad idea, but, I thought maybe, limiting how many times a pet could die, wouldn't be a bad idea. Or maybe like has already been mentioned, making spec and the actual taming skill effect a pet you are using, as it stand taming skill means squat, I can tame a snarler with 120 spec and taming skill, might take me 10 collars, but so what. My 2c, for what it's worth.
     
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  9. Barugon

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    All I can say is that I personally don't like to be beat down with the nerf stick; I can only imagine that tamers don't either.
     
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  10. Yigg Endimion

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    This is sota, part of an ever evolving game. No I don't like nerfs, but they are sometimes needed, we all know that, good or bad.
     
  11. StymieLLTS

    StymieLLTS Avatar

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    In 2 Words...Horrible Idea

    Any Tamer that can tame T15 Creatures has most definitely Invested in excess of 1 BILLION Points in their Taming Tree. To flesh out the Tree Fully, they are approaching 2 BILLION points invested. And with all those points invested, there is also Real Life Time invested. Months if not Years of constant playing to build those skills have gone into it so they have a Slim Chance to tame a Tier 15+ creature. And once they reach the Skill Level needed to accomplish that, they can do nothing but Tame a few creatures for their personal use under the current proposal. Where is the reward for investing all this Time and Effort? Many Tamers choose this as their Profession. It's no different than a Player who chooses to Create a Blacksmith or a Carpenter. They have invested their Time and Experience equally. Crafter's have invested to be able to create the Best Weapons and Armor so they can sell High End Products to their customers and be rewarded with Gold in return. So why shouldn't the Tamer having invested an equal amount of Time and Experience be able to reap Financial Rewards as well by selling what they Tame?
    One must also consider that in order to tame these High Level Creatures, one must adopt the Taming Specialization to have any sort of chance to successfully tame them. So a Tamer creates a Build that's sole purpose is to be able to Tame and Control what they Tame. Other than using their Tamed Creatures in battle, this is their Revenue Stream. Why would anyone Invest so much Time and Experience with No Reward at the end? And Time and Experience is only part of the equation. We must not forget the high cost of Training the Taming Skills. The Cost to make or buy Taming Collars adds up very quickly, especially when trying to attempt High Level Creatures. It's not uncommon to burn through 20+ Collars in an attempt to tame a Polar Mutilator and Red Snarler. Is there no recourse to offset these costs. And the answer is not, "well they can still sell lower tiered Creatures". Any Non-Spec'd player with a few Million Experience Points in the right Skills can Tame them. The Reward and Recuperation of Costs comes from Selling High Level Pets.

    As it has been repeated said, this Game is the Spiritual Successor to Ultima Online. In many aspects, that is true. But in UO, Tamers are free to sell anything they Tame. In fact, they are very few Items in that Game that are considered No Trade. Selling a Tamed Creature there is no different than a Crafter selling a Sword. That's what we call an Open Market Economy. It's what makes the Game fully function as an Open World Experience. It is what makes an MMO an MMO. To restrict it in any way damages the Economy, and Players as a result. And No Trade Items whether the Dev Team believes it or not Effect the Economy, and Always in a Bad Way.

    And what of these Players? Do you think that they will be like "Oh well, I'll deal with yet another Nerf". Some will I'm sure, but others will see it as they have Wasted Months if not Years of their Time and Effort just to have the Rug pulled out from under them. Some will end up leaving. And it's not like there isn't plenty of other Games on the Market that fit a similar Niche. For a Game that has lost God Knows how many players over the years, ( Yes I'm looking at you Bard Skills nerf!), the Dev Team should be looking for ways to make the Game more enjoyable for the people who Play and Spend Money in the COTO Store, and not spending their time finding ways to piss off and penalize their Player Base. A game should be enjoyable to those that play it, and not another headache after much effort has been invested. There's enough of that in Real Life.
     
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  12. Xee

    Xee Bug Hunter

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    I'm no tamer but I do think that perhaps those who dont have the higher skills who just use the pets imo should have a chance that they loose control of the pet because they are not spec masters. it would seem the more logical option. i am pretty sure they are steering clear of the no trade pets.
     
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  13. Yumorist

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    As an experienced summoner, I would certainly like to stand out from non-specialists. I would suggest several options: 1) put the top representatives of pets in the category: "only for specialists" - (all original pets except standard wolves, wild boars, bears and spiders), that is, only specialists could tame original pets,
    hence the profit in the sale; 2) Non-specialists could not use some of the summoner skills - (resurrection, healing ....); 3) It is possible that it would be impossible to tame a pet above your adventure level, this would once again add value to the efforts invested in character growth.
     
  14. Violet Ronso

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    Tamers already have the option to be the only ones to tame certain pets because at some point, Specialization is necessary to tame. Also, tamers have the added benefit of making their pets WAY stronger through specialization as the pets grow in power quite considerably in regards to the tamers spec level (about 1% power increase per 1% of taming mastery).
     
  15. devilronin

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    increase summoning required to 109, 119, 129 for the next 3 tamed critter tiers, it takes a WHILE to level either taming or summoning, unless you went ham and leveled the cooldown passive<_<
     
  16. Duke Gréagóir

    Duke Gréagóir Legend of the Hearth

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    Tamers without specialization is just a fighter or mage with a summoned pet. ;) You have a throwaway summon.

    I agree we need summon skills for the next pets group to be at least 130, 150, 170!
     
  17. FrostII

    FrostII Bug Hunter

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    I know that you're (probably) the highest tamer in the game, @Duke Gréagóir , but I think you're a bit extreme in this suggestion.
    130 I can see, maybe even 150 - but 170 ? 170 costs over 2 BILLION xp's, which is absurd on it's face.
    I don't like a game where only a small handful of players can own the most powerful force in the game.
    You really leave all prospective tamers just giving up with requirements like that.
     
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  18. FBohler

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    I agree, physical and magic combat gear have no level requirement, why tamer got to have prohibitive ones?
     
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  19. devilronin

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    because buying the 'best' tame out there(though i dont know how a new player can afford anything higher than some destroyers or mid tames), from summon 1 and no other benefits might make you poor in an early encounter(ie empty collar, lost a wyvern once due to this), while getting the best MW/enchant gear will make fighting easier(using atavist encounter as an example for both cases, those purifier can KO a newbie easy, same with most encounters:/ )
     
  20. Time Lord

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    If a player hasn't a tamed creature and a bow in their hands, they're simply not among the vast majority of player now.
    Melee now belongs to the creatures. Count the number in your next hunting party.

    :eek: Taming is in and getting fatter by the minute!
    [​IMG]
    :)"Power Creep Achieved":D!'
    ~Time Lord~
     
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