Shroud will have gender equality, right?

Just getting concerned when reading Blade of the Avatar...10 chapters in and it's a bit one-sided so far.

Head count in BotA so far:
23 named male characters
8 named female

Characters who have actual dialogue in BotA:
15 male (not including unnamed male messengers, guards, etc)
4 female

Mentioned 'Professions' in BotA:
Male: Military (inc. warlord, shogun, marshal, general, captain, lieutenant, soldier, guard, (mystic) guardian, tribune), emperor, count, ambassador, loremaster, messenger, sorcerer, teamster, dock master, merchant, thief
Female: Military (scout/spy x1), baroness, priestess, sorceress, merchant, emissary/ambassador, cripple, caretaker, gossip

 

This is a pretty good point. Though men vastly outnumber women playing these types of games, there is no shortage of men pretending to be or RPing as women in the game.

Since this is not a comic book, I also support the call for equality.

 

BotA is a novel set largely in a military setting, which tends to be overly male. We've seen a handful of NPCs in three towns. I'm not sweating small sample sizes in equality there.

But character creation really should offer equal options for both male and female Avatars.

 

Where? You mean on Earth? Because Britannia didn't have this problem. Heck, the Guardian had a woman leading his army.

 

What kind of equality are we talking about here? Population diversity?

 

While I could care less about what gender and who where does what...be a woman be a guy, whatever floats your boat.

I can't stand trying to force being PC on others. Let's just see where it goes!

 

However, all the city guards are male in every Ultima game. The paladins in Jhelom are also all male.

Personally, I wouldn't care if a RPG followed a real historical model; its not necessary for a medieval setting to be modern socially. Though, you're right, I don't think its ever been really a thought out issue for Britannia. Women can be fighters, and I remember seeing many in Ultima games, but they're also generally not.

 

You're wrong about that, actually (UW2 springs to mind), but I'm willing to give nameless generic-dialogue NPCs a pass in any case.

...Jhelom has no paladins. Perhaps you're thinking of Trinsic?

Either way, there are both female warriors and paladins. Here's a female paladin of U4:

NAME: Michelle
pronoun: She
LOOK: A beautiful paladin!
JOB: I welcome thee unto Serpent Castle!
HEALTH: Very well.
SENT: He is the lord here, take the west passage.
HEAL: Take the east passage.
query: Art thou well?
YES: Very good, perhaps thou seeks Sentri.
NO: Then thou should visit our healer!

And here's a female warrior of U7, in Jhelom no less.

### SYRIA
(start)
Standing before you is a statuesque fighting woman with eyes that radiate a familiarity with danger.
"It seems we meet again," says Syria.
name
"I am Syria, a fighter from the south."
job
"Currently I am resting from my last voyage as a mercenary. I amstudying in Jhelom with the fighting trainer De Snelat the Library of Scars."
Jhelom
"This is a city of fighters and duels. If thou dost not like it the way it is, then leave. Duels are fought here for many reasons. I have mine own reasons for fighting them."

(You get the picture)

While female paladins and fighters did exist in Ultima, it's very true they were outnumbered. I remember it being cool they existed at all, and no one cared they were girls.

Representation in professions, mostly. The number of f vs m characters doesn't bother me as much (though it does bother me) as the tendency to put male characters in physical jobs and the female ones in administration, nursing and needlecraft. I think it's the cliche that irks me more than anything. I'm sure Shroud will allow PCs to be whatever the hell they like, but if Blade of the Avatar is meant to be indicative of what the world will be like, and even what the writing quality will be like, it could be tweaked a little in future chapters.

 

Judging by all the Dragon Lance calenders, I assume SotA will have no shortage of females.

The only game I can really think of where sex of player character was a big deal was warhammer. Many of the classes were only open to one of the other.

 

Is the number or ratio important or are the characters and their portrayal important? What are we trying to achieve here? Balance / quota in term of number of characters, number of lines spoken, number of scene appearances, number of main vs supporting characters, etc?

Or is the intent in encouraging Richard and Tracy to have well written female characters in the backstory novel and the game, regardless of how many there are in relation to the opposite gender? And for a game about virtues, regardless if they are good or evil?

 

Does it really bother you that much? There were practical reasons men went into battle while women stayed home and raised the kids. The bad thing is they were socially and legally forced to, whether they really wanted to or not.

I think its cool that there are women warriors in Britannia, and it makes sense, given that players can choose women characters that are warriors, but the numbers don't bother me.

I wonder how much the story will move out of the military setting, though.

 

In this day and age, in a MMORPG that's supposed to be the spiritual successor of Ultima?

It bothers me enough I'll write a forum post about it expressing my concern/disappointment, evidently.

Well, there's practical reasons not to wear a chainmail bikini too, but that hasn't stopped it appearing on one of Shroud's loading screens.

It's set during a war; it probably won't stray far.

 

I certainly hope that all conceivable problems with SotA are resolved to everyone's perfect satisfaction so that this is the only remaining concern, because honestly, this is so far down on my list of priorities I can't even imagine what might be beneath this.

Thinking...

Nah, I got nuthin'.

 

I don't think it's an "omg how dare you!" sort of importance, but I do think it's worth mentioning, just so it isn't completely forgotten about. *shrugs*

 

It's funny, because while I don't care a bit for PvP I don't visit threads about it to tell people so.

 

There is more to SotA than just PvP, and one can be interested in PvP and still be concerned about the rest of the game as well.

 

I agree with you, if you wish to market your game to everyone you need to be as inclusive to everyone as you can be. Seems to me that the only thing taking place at this point in time in regards to marketing towards a female market is aimed towards the men who want to dress up their female toons in the game! lawl. This is such a painful pattern in MMOs, I really wish SotA would stomp on it.

 

I think it has no place in a game tbh... As long as neither gender is demeaned, it is a fantasy story, we have male and female characters, what's the point?
Does everything have to be 50/50 exactly?? I couldn't care less if all characters in the game were female, and I'm a male. This whole gender equality talk a silly concept imho that has no room in a game where we all are supposed to have fun.

 

Interested in some feminist role models in storytelling, are we?

Check out "The Assassination of the High Precentor" and "The Voiceless Songstress" by yours truly, Grandmaster Bard Holt Ironfell.​

​

Both stories are backstory (& sequels) to "A Forgotten Secret in the Underworld" which won recognition in the earlier storytelling competition, if you recall, and I've now narrated and set all three to music.​

Both Caitlin-Ji and Kialyra, in their own distinct way, are examples of 'strong' female characters.

It's more than just equality when it comes to gender. It's about writing convincing characters that take gender into consideration. Inequality (and all sorts of conflict) is fantastic for storytelling. That's why we read fiction: conflict. So I disagree that 'gender equality' is what the issue is. It's representation. My writing is dark, and particularly in The Voiceless Songstress, issues around gender are central. But the conflicts, when represented well, actually add to the intensity of the story, rather than subtract.

Just thought I'd pitch in my two cents and see if I could help out with some examples of fantasy storytelling to do with women.

~Holt

 

Also, hoping for at least some 'NPCs of color' in the game e.g. Black, brown etc