PVP & Death: Current Thinking Megapost

I would concur with your assessment.

The Dev+ post appears to be based on an erroneous presumption that the flag choice *you* have set somehow affects how your *opponent* loot drops.

Hence: Using that particular post as an argument against the use of a looting flag system would also then be erroneous.

 

I was thinking that maybe this could be items found in the PVP instances (The meteor strikes etc.), or they could be craftable items, or maybe arena prizes... That's all I got. Any suggestions? Anybody? Hello.... ?

 

If anything I would suggest craftable to make us more dependant on crafters, the more interaction we have with each other the more we need each other the better imo.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

Now let's simplify it:
Two swords both do +20 damage to dragons.

One is a rare endgame sword usable only in PvE. edit: (or risk losing it).

One is a more common attachment to a crafted sword, and can only be used when PvP is enabled.

The same would go for other gear. This would make PvE-Only players progressive, while keeping PvP gear the same power against other players and cheaper to use.

 

This is not a big assumption.PvP and death wasnt the case back then wont be now.No matter how decay will work,it wont be the same as the maths done with items being lost or stolen by players.It simply makes the crafters purely secondary characters cause it takes the biggest chunk of their income away making them assembly bots for item recipies in the long run.
Yes the might PvPer wont know his/her moves cause .Same way as i could wear my nice PvE items and wipe from the battlefield 75% of the competition whenever i felt doing PvP cause i was mainly a PvE player (yes PvP without full loot is PvE killing a dragon and getting a rotten shoe for loot).Iam 100% positive that i wouldnt be able to do that with balanced gear or if the vast majority of the people that were in PvP arenas had the same Item lvl as me.
And why should even bother to attack a guild's house or castle?I have nothing to gain.And from what a house/castle protects me?Nothing.I even regret that my close friend also UO veteran convinced me that we should pre-purchase a house,cause we bought it with UO and what plus a house offered you there in mind.
From the things i read i wouldnt even buy it with in game money.It doesnt add anything to my gameplay except of showing off that:
a)I have extra money to spare for a game OR
b)If me or my guild purchased it with in game money that me or my bunch are uber pve farmers and we have killed lets say 1000000 lich lords to buy this property
Nothing close to the feeling that it gave you in UO(and made it valid to work like a dog and buy it)cause there ,it gave you shelter,a place to safely keep your earnings,talking with your in game friends without anyone reading and so many other luxuries a house offers and makes its value worth the time(you would never own a house with better security than a cave IRL if you had a god/dev sustain you) .

 

So the key aspect on this PvP thread for me is that the proposed system for looting just feels wrong and i'm yet to see any suggestions which are really viable other than what Ristra was suggesting (probably about 60 pages previous).

For me the key element has to be surrounding choice and potential consequence. It is clear that standard 'full loot' will not be acceptable, however there needs to be a good controlled system in place that limits the possibility of it occurring. I would suggest the following:

- Timers for looting based upon items for loot.
- Failure rates for looting attached to items.
- Damage to items linked to failure.
- Disturbance resets looting timer.
- Looted items cannot be traded until either corpse is re-claimed (by resurrection elsewhere) or it has been fully looted.
- Person who inflicts the most damage becomes the default looter.

In terms of timers, I would suggest the following:

Head: 10 sec
Chest: 30 sec
Legs: 20 sec
Boots: 10 sec
Hands: 10 sec
Weapon: 10 sec
Consumables: 5 sec per item

I would then apply a success chance to each item with items such as consumables being 100%, hands and boots maybe 80%, cascading down to a tunic which could be say 40%.

Each failure would result in the item being damaged, knowing that it would cost money to repair as some point the looter must decide whether or not it is viable to continue to loot. If the payer is disturbed by another player (ie an attack), the timer will re-start and it will be unlikely that the player would be able to continue to loot unless there are 'friends' who can protect him whilst the job is being done.

Meanwhile while all of this is going on, the dead player is actually making progress to get resurrected, at which which point the corpse and items will disappear and cannot be looted.

I see this mechanism being a lot better. I'm not saying the numbers are correct, but I believe in the principle.

In theory 'full loot' is achievable. In practice getting past some consumables and an item of armor would be challenging with full loot being highly unlikely.

In terms of NPC characters looting, I would stick to this being simple with perhaps 1 or 2 random items being taken, once the threshold is reached the player wont be looted anymore. The items will be regained by killing the NPC, only the owner would be able to loot their items back, the corpse could stay in place for 'X' amount of time if it contains player items.

 

Well, then if the best you can come up with as an example of griefing is something that won't even be possible in SotA, I think that is an excellent indication of the health of the design as proposed.

 

Not sure how someone can be killed over and over in quick succession, since you will probably res in a safe area, and as I pointed out before, your body comes to you.

Again, you suggest a problem that I don't think is even possible.

 

No no, you are right, it's IMPOSSIBLE to make a system that is based on decay that would be more effective than full loot.</sarc> Or is it you just want pre Tram UO and will accept nothing else?

They have outlined their system, it does put a sting on death, it's just not centered on PvP. They could easily alter the decay, exp dept, and ransom to make that sting more painful than full loot. It's an outline with the option to adjust.

As for why you would attack a guild's house or castle, how would you know you have nothing to gain? Did they do a "Why we PvP" Mega thread? More assumptions, probably based on UO.

 

I dont point out me being an adult as a PvP and you of childish behaviour.Its a metaphore just point out a difference between partial and full experience of a game-lifes features.
Adult by the means of fully experience game-life PvE and PvP wise in the same way a mature person fully experiences life with risks included.You may know that is law forbidden in your country to get stolen and most of the times this will be the rule,but if you go inside a bad street wearing ,lets say ,your office suit and a bunch of crackheads see you,you know that if for some reason they decide to rob you no law can help you there and you should better avoid taking that route.
So in game example given:You want a rare resource or an enchant that involves you going or farming in a PvP area.You should enhance your gameplay to minimize the losses which are always there.Why an invisible hand should protect you
by a human PK and in the same time lets you get looted by a goblin?
If the enchant or resource you want, isnt in the middle of 10 monster spawns ,that in some point they will kill you or hinder your farm by lets say 10% of your what you will totally gather and you have less monster spawns and a possible thief/PK from times to times that in the end they will sum up at the same 10% or 20% loss would be that strike in your gameplay?
Bonuses (full experience of the game "adult" like we said) like unique enchants/items/resources/skill gains wouldnt motivate you to fully experience the game?Always with tuning the items in a way that they will be always replaceable and as much as your experience with your character grows ,you minimize your losses in the same way so you will always feel that your time spending in the game matters.

 

Yes cause in the full loot also resides the position of the player blacksmith that provides players with the a standard good for all quality weapons/items in the reasonable prices (player crafters and rules of trade will arrange that)
Decay is an awesome idea for furniture or decoration to enhance the carpenter/tinker professions and have more options for a living.Items should be expendable and not given mythic abilities.You can have many live examples of
where that will lead in the long run cause you have several games around you that work like that.
Ransom systems,flags,sieges,bounties proposed all this to protect "my precious" items when you can make them all tools of secondary nature and let player gameplay unfold the story

 

I'm just going to assume that any tone I inferred is due to a language barrier as it appears you are not a native speaker from your syntax (and if that's not the case, I apologize for the assumption).

Then, I'm going to disagree with your assertion that PvE should be treated as a "lesser" endeavor due to some perceived concept of risk vs. reward.

 

I think they have alluded to the fact that PvP enchantments will be stacked on the same items as are used for PvE. This way, the sword you kill orcs with will have different and possibly superior abilities against other players.

No need to switch gear that I know of.

 

Let's turn the tables. I want a system where, if you died whilst PvEing, the NPC looted all your gear and distributed it amongst his peers possibly never to be seen again. The spoils of victory go to the victor! Now THAT would get quite a few folks blood pumping!

Too many people equate the loss of gear to the time involved in grinding for said gear. This is especially true for those coming from many other MMO games. However, if this game is not a gear-grind but rather crafter/economy driven perhaps the fear of gear loss would diminish considerably.

No one, including myself, enjoys being griefed ( rez killing, spawn camping, etc..). However, I personally have no issue with getting ganked and hopefully returning the "favor" one day.

I do, however, agree that RMT items should be blessed and not be lootable - provided it is only a cosmetic thing and not a pay-to-win thing.

 

I don't know why PvP players would want better gear against each other. That's player gear vs player gear.

I would rather have crafted gear that was all the same power and then attach PvE enchantments to it that are really good, but require PvP enabled.

I think this would do a lot to balance out the cost. Players who never want to see PvP could use the high end gear. PvP players could use the cheaper crafted version that is only usable in PvP mode.

 

I would want gear to be just gear, equally effective for PvP and PvE. Any benefit from PvP or PvE should be applied to my character, not my gear.

Perfect characters, not gear.

 

Lust of gear is the root of all evil.

 

Close enough.

 

Yes, that's perfect for PvP. PvE players want progressive gear rewards. Why not just give PvP players the same PvE attachments at a low cost with the catch of PvP enabled?

PvP gear would remain worthless to PvE-Only players. Everything that was not PvP enabled gear would be worth a lot more because it could be used anytime.

It would be the best of both worlds for everyone.

edit: I share your view, but they have told us already that PvE gear will progress.

 

I plan on doing PvE as well as PvP. I would want to apply my achievements in either area to my character, not my gear.

If I were a Marine sniper, my effectiveness would depend more upon my training than upon what rifle I was using. Without that training, I would be equally ineffective with either an average rifle, or a better rifle. My training, my experience is what matters, not my gear.