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PVP & Death: Current Thinking Megapost

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by DarkStarr, Mar 6, 2014.

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  1. Ristra

    Ristra Avatar

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    You don't give item decay the credit it is due. Off the top of my head I could list several methods item decay can have a bigger impact on the economy than full loot.

    Example: Player dies, doesn't matter how, PvP, PvE, falls off a cliff, drowns, etc

    Can the player make it back to the corpse quick enough before being ripped back to a point of connecting?
    1. Player makes it to corpse and reconnects, taking a minor durability hit, small exp debt, and a short rebinding sickness
    2. Player does not make it to the corpse, the player and the corpse are ripped to the nearest reconnecting point, taking a major durability hit, large exp debt, and a short rebinding sickness

    To repair an item, you can use a repair kit, take it to a NPC, or a player. For each repair, the cost of resources and skill required increases.

    Plain bronze 2 handed sword:
    Durability: 100/100 (New)
    Condition: 1 (New)

    Plain bronze 2 handed sword: (successful reconnect)
    Durability: 95/100 (slightly worn)
    Condition: 1 (New)

    Plain bronze 2 handed sword: (unsuccessful reconnect)
    Durability: 15/100 (damaged)
    Condition: 1 (New)

    Player takes the weapon to a NPC or uses a repair kit the durability is fully repaired, only the max durability takes a hit. Eventually the durability max is too low to be of use and must be taken to a player blacksmith for full repair. At this point the condition takes a hit.

    Plain bronze 2 handed sword:
    Durability: 100/100
    Condition: 2

    The cost for a player blacksmith to repair this weapon is now higher. Eventually, the player must decided if it's worth repairing the weapon or replacing the weapon.

    Death now drives the economy. Adjust the durability hit on death and the condition hit on repair for balance of the economy.

    PvP has no control for balance as this example does. In a full loot economy you can not know if the person looting will sell/salvage/trash/trade/horde the loot.
     
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  2. Mercyful Fate

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    Item durability/decay should not be strictly limited to death. Simple use of the item over time should cause loss - how much is a "to be determined".
    No weapon/armor should escape unphased while wielded in combat. This should be true in both PvP and PvE.

    This would greatly increase crafter viability in the long term by providing services to repair or replace/sell their wares.
     
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  3. Ristra

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    I was trying to avoid the wall of text with details on the example.
     
  4. Acrylic 300

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    I plan on both. They have already said that PvE will be gear based. I don't want that for PvP.

    I want to have PvP enabled PvE buffs. A cheaper version of the same gear needed to progress in PvE-Only. Cheaper because it is only usable by one play style (PvP).
     
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  5. Ristra

    Ristra Avatar

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    While this is true, it leaves out some major details. A Marine sniper is trained to effectively use many weapons. To be a Marine sniper you need to be able to exceed the limits of the weapon if needed.

    M16/A2 Rifle:
    Maximum Range - 3,600 meters
    Max Effective Range for a Point Target - 550 meters (kill shot)
    Max Effective Range for an Area Target - 800 meters (on target)

    I did the 1000 meter competition. It's not luck, it is training, but the little things make a huge difference at that range. Every Marine in the competition brings their own weapon and the majority of them are very superstitious because of those little things. They go to bed the same way, wake up the same way, wear the same clothes (unwashed even), eat the same foods, approach the target the same way, chamber the round the same way. When that shot matters, it needs to be your weapon.

    Yes, I am a Marine. No I am not a Marine sniper, they make insane shots.
     
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  6. TEK

    TEK Legend of the Hearth

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    I have never read or heard of sota being geared based combat in any way, shape, or form. They have always went out if their way to say the opposite. Where is this info at?
     
  7. Owain

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    The best shots are obviously achieved with the best weapons, but the marginal difference between an excellent sniper rifle and the one the sniper trains with daily should be fairly small. There won't be an order of magnitude difference, or even a very large percentage difference.

    In your experience, you will do best with your own weapon, but how much difference would there be if you used the weapon of a squad mate. In fact, push come to shove, don't you think you'd be pretty effective with an M1 Garand, if that is all you had available?

    That is your skill, not the weapons.
     
  8. Ristra

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    The difference in a kill shot and anything else is so fractional at 2 miles you must know your weapon. Exact same weapon does not cut it, not to be 100% sure you will not miss.

    This is an extreme, but that's the difference between a sniper and a Marine sniper.
     
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  9. Acrylic 300

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    From this Mega Post:
    Because many players would be so afraid to lose their gear that they wouldn’t play with it, we would not be able to balance encounters for players who are properly geared . This would break our ability to gate progression through areas for PVE elements because if we balance for quality gear, it might be impossible for someone with junk gear to progress. This would only seriously impact PVP’ers who choose to also PVE or pursue the quest line as non-PVP people would not risk losing gear their gear. Vice versa, if we balance for junk gear we trivialize the game for people with good gear.

    Edit: The solution is (PvP enabled) Common gear; (PvE-Only) Rare gear.
     
  10. Ristra

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    Pretty sure they said this was only a marginal gear difference. To make things like the naked mage not viable. Not a gear escalation.
     
  11. Owain

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    True, but that's not what I'm talking about with respect to gear in SotA. Most of your skill should reside in you, not your gear. Your gear should tweak your damage, not revolutionize it.
     
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  12. Ragnabrock

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    First post in the mega thread. This is what acrylic is talking about. It's also why I think there is no chance of us getting full loot. Which is why I am a big proponent of the "stop arguing about what we can't change, and start looking for solutions with what we can" idea.
     
  13. TEK

    TEK Legend of the Hearth

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    That doesn't quite say it "gear based" Combat in the l33t wow armor sense, but I do stand corrected in how badly linear powered gear is regarded as "junk".... I had almost forgot. :)
     
  14. TEK

    TEK Legend of the Hearth

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    Full loot is not likely but a limited loot loss risk in all forms of combat is well within reason to argue for a middle ground.
     
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  15. Acrylic 300

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    It makes more sense to me to enchant crafted equipment with cheap but powerful PvE attachments that are PvP enabled. Then go ahead and let the PvE-Only players have the high end gear they want (without a PvP enable restriction)

    This will allow PvP players to progress through the game.

    Edit: This is the solution to gear disparity.
     
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  16. Ristra

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    But your affinity to your gear is something they are trying to add to SotA. Doesn't mean you are gear dependent. A Marine sniper is still deadly with any weapon.
     
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  17. Owain

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    The Marine sniper probably wasn't the best example, but rather a better one is a standard Marine rifleman. You are attuned to your personal weapon, but you probably would still be capable on any similar weapon, or even on any rifle in general. That is due to YOUR skill, and isn't an attribute of any weapon.
     
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  18. Ragnabrock

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    How do you feel about having any PVP only gear always be lootable? I think that will help with loot satisfaction. It also helps us sell it to nonPVPers. "Yes we get better gear cheaper, but we have to PVP with it and it is always in danger of being looted."
     
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  19. Acrylic 300

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    In this case yes. I wouldn't even restrict who can make it. Hammering out a PvP enabled attachment for PvE should be an easy task.

    Edit: I wouldn't restrict what play style can make it as long as they have the right skill.
     
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  20. Ragnabrock

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    That might even encourage some people to go PVP. I am still a fan of the idea of loot flags, but this idea is shaping up pretty nicely.
     
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