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PVP & Death: Current Thinking Megapost

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by DarkStarr, Mar 6, 2014.

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  1. blaquerogue

    blaquerogue Avatar

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    yeah since i paid money into it i feel obligated to play it so i may mostly be in single player online, maybe jump to multiplayer online every now and then. I wish i was more excited about it! I have liked what RG had done in the past, but until i actually see how it all plays out in the end, i cant say much about it so far! I can say i am not happy thus far with it, but i do feel obligated to play it since i did pay into it!
     
  2. StrangerDiamond

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    You guys are juuust beginning to catch my drift... also harboring a much more constructive tone which is sweet...

    Strider, I'm a bit disapointed that you would trade what you love for security, isn't that the anti-thesis of being human ? isn't that why we humans go to so much lengths to protect our privacy and prevent the nanny "oracle" from peeking into our intimacy, even if it says its for our safety ?

    Some of you are behaving like you need to explain to us how UO worked... this I can overlook, but don't come tell us that you aren't going to stand for *anything* *...why...* if you don't have any better ideas to share than what was proposed earlier.

    I think that carefully balancing what crafters can make and putting a quick limit on it (and that ingenuity makes the power not the gear) is the only way to achieve coherence in the market. This is the only way pure crafter and crafty characters are going to have any fun in this game... through tight community. This really can't be clearer !

    no responsibility no gain, no consequences in the internal refractory social space, no pain...

    This is the basics of philosophy folks, if you limit chaos and realism for the sake of security some people are going to get extreemly bored real quick and will look for shortcuts and advantages to other things. That creates noise, distortion in communication, and eventually grey, dull, everyday small talk like on facebook, hey wanna join my friend list, thats the only way gods allow you to enter my house yea... again I'm NOT asking for UO's lose your key and cry, and I'm NOT seeing WoW everywhere in this game, it just seems so incredibly convenient however that it repulses me to some degree.

    I hate to quote it but Rome wasn't built in one day (no pun intended, I know its hard work)! It's important to understand that in order to reignite the flame we need a tight balanced structure from the very beginning, then we go up in spirals through story hoops. But the structure is strong and rooted, in the fact that players who spent time in the past don't feel like they're worthless replicas of other avatars now just because they had to take some time off. If you are getting confused by the paradox I am stating its a good sign avatar, you're on the path to ascension.

    Forgive me for being so incisive, but this is exactly what this community wants ; they just are unaware of it because of sad propaganda that I'm not afraid to denounce.
     
  3. vjek

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    Denounce away to the limit of the forum rules, but it's not what I want any part of, nor anyone I know in the community.

    But don't take my word for it.. (written by the guy who is spearheading NPC development for SotA)

    More to the point, what you're advocating won't survive in a diverse/mature genre. UO (1997-1999) was an anomaly that will not be repeated.
     
  4. StrangerDiamond

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    the article although well articulated, is all frustration and 0 content.

    Maybe if I was just a regular player, then maybe, but who knows where my name comes from, and who knows what will happen in the future...

    Seeing some lurkers like your blank post put a smile on my face however, thanks for that I'll move on and disregard this... "attempt".
     
  5. StrangerDiamond

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    btw you just insulted ImaNoobie and half the old school UO players who knowfulwell that real old school UO was not 1999, it was all in our heads, way before anyone tried to scam the machine for money.

    you are not adressing bigots who's loss won't be missed...

    We're talking about whats best for death, and pvp variations that could be implemented in the future (maybe even years from now), and we know its not in the close future so GIMME A BREAK.

    edit : For example I would be open that some powerful players could retain a few items upon death that would allow them a chance to get back up, that isn't against any roleplay, you just gotta know magic is at work here, but magic has limits because you gotta be fair to everyone. Roleplay has it that every avatar has native magic, thats whats at work here not magic of the circles. But your great armor of troll resist that took you two months to get because the drop is .001% and that you brought in the wild and you get caught... its not following you in death, that is a roleplay breaker. Maybe if you enchanted it ? maybe if someone from your guild enchanted it ? Its gotta have variations and complexity, or it wont be interesting. We MUST continue to be constructive.

    I just want to know that if I go through all the hoops we're being proposed (and you all know I will regardless because I admire Lord Gariott's work) that we have an OPEN MIND for the future that there is some hope to re-ignite the eternal flame.

    No, it did not fragment like the gem, and the market... but if we don't cater to these matters, the community will fragment regardless, because the actual proposed model isn't social at all, I can choose all the interactions I have, I am god.

    I wanna be, ImAnOob in the world, I roleplay.
     
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  6. erponxaos

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    To avoid being misunderstood i just use your comment as a starting point and not for a personal attack or debating with you and you alone.

    http://www.gameskinny.com/kqq41/eve-online-rogues-gallery-helicity-boson-the-industrial-terrorist

    Read carefully what my friend did in EVE.And thats atm the most mature game in the genre with 10 years of existence and a dedicated fun base.Thats the kind of gameplay we will never have in this game (if we go with what its been told till now).
    And if you think Ultima series had gear progression in terms of nowdays WoW clones i suggest we get a Glass Sword and get over with pve and pvp.But i forgot human interaction with its plus and minus is an anomaly and UO vets shouldnt be here,basically spell them the word Ultima so they pay then ruin whatever hopes and ideas for a new Ultima so they get out asap and leave the game for people that like pay to win.Lets play a true multiplayer game and kill AI monsters until Highlander dies (irony).
    If UO 1996-2000 was an anomaly then i suppose all people that play EVE(around 500.000 subscribers measured at Feb 2013.In the rare case that each player has 5 accounts average thats 100.000 players,20.000 more than our Brittanians) are disturbed by default taking account your descriptions.Full open pvp/loot when in EVE the games ISP currency can also pay the subscription and act as real money in many ways.
    But you can always buy a Baron castle for around 3k dollars and sit inside changing your decoration thats something isnt it....?
    Closing this i cant see where people see the diversity or the multiple options in a genre that 90% of the games have adopted a WoW core and just add their personal style to little things,each company in its game.I see the moment that i will see the usual farming bots and player companies outfarm and outgrind you and spam his/her wares in every city even outside your house,in order to offer his/her services for right amount of real money.
     
  7. Morkul

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    There is a problem to compare EVE with a full open pvp/loot game. If you are in high sec areas you will not be attacked because Concorde will kill the attacker the fore you you are dead. Now days you can get every single resource from high sec areia, some of them in lower quantities than you would get in low or null sec.
     
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  8. Umbrae

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    You just have to wait a few years and they move on. ;) NWN had the same problem, and we loved it when new MMO's launched because they would all go away.
     
  9. 3devious

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    The problem with waiting for the people that are "having fun wrong" to go away is that they do and you're sitting there by yourself wishing that you weren't the only one playing. We're all sitting around thinking that we're going to be here when they all go away and that the others are the reason that various MMOs fold.
     
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  10. Ristra

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    Can someone fill me in on why full loot is so important?

    From what I can tell it's between 2 things. 1: People like to loot. 2: Punishment

    1: Don't we all? MOBs do not have full loot either.

    2: The devs have made this system to put the control of punishment into their hands and not into the players.

    If either one of these 2 are not enough then ask for an increase. I don't see them giving these back to the players. There are too many reason why they don't want either to be fully in the players hands.
     
  11. StrangerDiamond

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    You can do both Ristra :)

    But I also don't advocate full loot (as mentioned in my last post)... especially for quest items and whatnot.

    Then logically you'd have to make it that the most precious guild/power items are those that can ben looted, along with whats very heavy and non-magical (with limits)

    By balancing you allow the pvp phenomenon to fully happen :

    eg: having to run and hide next to your first victim hoping they haven't had time to get their wares back so you get enough regs to survive then having to spot that vainquishing sword among a pile of useless dungeon loot before the victim has time to call his guild in backup :)

    This phenomenon is well known and appreciated by all PvPers... you guys have to understand that they are the minority, and they always fall under attack everytime they try to find a home, so its normal that they feel defensive and say FULL LOOT !!!

    They are alas as confused as the rest of you :p
     
  12. Xandra7

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    Any rule set they chose, as long as it is FUN for all involved, will work.

    The main thing that needs to be considered is how Guilds and individuals will play the game with in the rules, especially in an open ffa environment where player deaths means being looted.
    I am guilty of not trusting that we will have a player environment, where the population will work together to control what game mechanics are set up to not control, griefers.

    Allowing jerks free reign has nothing to do with a good pvp system, and they do not care if their behavior causes folk to leave and stagnate the pool of new player influx.
     
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  13. Ristra

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    What is the PvP phenom? I am betting your definition is very different than many others.

    If all you want is PvP to be based on making your opponent naked so they have a harder time coming back after a res then I am going to have to disagree with your definition. PvP should have a purpose (which is not the scope of this thread) Loot is not part of that purpose, bonus or perk maybe. Punishment to the victim should be fully under control of the devs and universal across PvP and PvE.

    The phenom you seek is pre Tram UO and too many systems are not the same for that to exist in SotA. The main factors against full loot is item affinity and controlling the punishment imposed on the victim in PvP.
     
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  14. StrangerDiamond

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    Please... are you really telling me you went over my posts without knowing what I want ?

    I'm just giving examples so we can continue discussion in a civilised manner, my main goal if you recall (or not) is to make everything to have a purpose, so the community would have to get a flexible incentive system to remain open to random interaction.

    I don't seek pre-tram UO... although I had fun, it was a nightmare that would never happen here, this is not EA.

    But there wont be no robin hood either... it seems.
     
  15. PrimeRib

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    Hunger Games is really just a FFA arena. More of a MOBA with no teams than something like an MMORPG. Divergent, on the other hand, would work very well for an MMO and would be very much like SotA as the factions line up pretty well with Truth, Love, and Courage.
     
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  16. Silent Strider

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    It is a game. It's meant to be enjoyable. Anything that makes it not be enjoyable anymore makes it completely worthless.

    It's very different from the real world. To copy something I was posting in another game's forums regarding a somewhat similar situation, there are a lot of situations that I put up with in the real world; family, work, friends, those usually come ahead of my enjoyment, which means I'm prepared to do a lot of things I don't enjoy for the sake of others or myslef. In a game, though? Not a chance, I would rather drop the game.

    Personally, I'm opting out of the whole economy by purchasing extra accounts so I can be self-sufficient in crafting. It's not an area of the game that I enjoy; I can tolerate it when a way to quickly and painlessly interact with the economy exists (like a centralized AH), but without such a way I'm not going to take part in the economy.

    I'm not sure how to point this in a non-blunt way, but you are projecting your own preferences on everyone else. It doesn't work that way, people are different, with different interests. I'm sincerely tired of seeing posts by PvP proponents, both in this and other forums, that seem to think that a PvE player is just someone that haven't experienced the joy of PvP, that anyone that experiences it once will be "converted"; that just isn't true.

    Your post follows a different line; you seem to want a virtual society, and you see the risk of intra-social conflict as an integral, perhaps even essential, part of that. It's still similar, though; you assume that everyone, or at least most players, will enjoy being part of a virtual society if they only experience it once. I personally doubt that is true.
     
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  17. Umbrae

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    This was never a problem in NWN. Any good product will have a dedicated following, and there were always enough people to have fun. That is a game over a decade old and still has a strong community, which none of whom are those 13 year old girls and boys we were discussing.

    Not to mention SOTA has an interesting Multiplayer which - like NWN - is not like an MMO. Hopefully by friending and grouping eventually the tweens will get filtered out.
     
  18. StrangerDiamond

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    You know I hear ya... but have you stopped and realised yourself how often you say you would drop the game, how often you say that you don't mind about multiplayer at all cause you gonna talk to the community when you want only, and even opt out of the economy... ? I don't like to judge you, but your actions really do speak alot...

    I do not assume anything, I have travelled time and know things, and I was warned I would be received like this. In the real world however, I would be heralded as a great hero and you would probably want to kiss my feet.

    But thats not why I am, and when the opportunity arises, you will find me shying away, regressing into my fortuit primality where I will enjoy being in the company of the humorous and the misfits.

    I am aware, I am not a hero.

    I am conscious, I am not a god.

    I am recursive, and repent, and contiguous :)

    And you well... you stride, but not so silently hahaha
     
  19. 3devious

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    In NWN, your ability to play with others is not dependent on central servers. If Portalarium shuts the game down, it's single player for you so unless you're docdoom77, it's in your best interest to hope that people don't go away. (I'm not even convinced that I won't be able to plead with him to go into a lava zone to try to outrun Envy|Midian and see that "you guys aren't funny!!" look on his face while he's blasting us with fireballs.) He's gonna miss us when he's holed up in SPO, just wait.
    You bring up an interesting point though. If all of the intractable PvE folks who demand to be safe all the time could just add all of the like minded players to their lists and never encounter those horrible PvPers at all wth?
    So everyone who is having fun wrong you could possibly never encounter. We are arguing about this why?

    sent from the future using my Coleco Adam
     
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  20. Ragnabrock

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    Well of course you won't be received well when you laugh in peoples faces.

    Tell people that you know what they want better then they do.


    Allude that people who post a lot are not making a point.

    Tell people that any evidence they bring forth to support their opinion has 0 content.

    Accuse people of questioning your sanity when they disagree with you.

    Call people smug when they don't agree with you.

    None of these actions will help a discussion move along in a calm and respectful way. I understand you like non consensual PVP, you like the community it brings. I however disagree with forcing anyone into a play style they don't like. We both are entitled to our opinions. I'll be happily PVPing it up with everybody when the game starts, and my enjoyment of the game will be enhanced by knowing that I won't be fighting anybody that doesn't want to fight. If you truly want to continue the discussion in a constructive manner.

    Lets quite arguing with each other, insulting each other, and telling each other what they want/think. Let's instead: listen to each other, converse with each other, work together to come up with better ideas, and respect everyone.

    I do not mean to be insulting in any way with this post. I just think some of your behavior lately hasn't been constructive and I wanted to point that out.
     
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