Increasing Item Repair costs

Actually that was exactly Garriott's implication in the deep dives all the way back to when they decided that player made items would be the best items in the game... also monster loot would be player made items. SO it seems reasonable to assume that a Dragon or some other powerful enemy would have better loot than a troll. That would mean that one of the player made items that has been recycled by some means in the game would end up as loot on the Dragon.

 

Right. From players the dragon has killed. The dragon loots the sword. That's fine because it doesn't subvert the destruction mechanism of item decay.

 

In the current system there is no item decay. it can always be repaired. I was throwing out ideas, and I think I like the idea of "reforging" better... and I added it to the original post as well for discussion.

 

Reforging:

So basically the item doesn't break and you can repair it for a normal fee a certain number of "normal repairs" then it loses one of it's refinements. In order for it to be reforged to its former glory, it must be reforged from scratch using all the materials needed for every level of refinement again.

This way It is as if a crafter crafted a totally new item from scratch, but it keeps the full history of the item. This will allow a crafter to charge full price for such a repair!!! Because it's basically making the item from scratch, but you keep the same item history that's all.

 

There is (or will be) item decay in the system currently being discussed. Rewatch the Crafting Deep Dive at 27:30. Whether the cost to repair goes up every time the item is repaired or the maximum durability goes down makes no difference. Eventually the item will be vendored or trashed. It's decay either way.

 

I think he means breakage rather than decay. Otherwise repairs make no sense.

 

well that depends on the way that the cost to repair goes up. if it's just a linear increase in cost it won't work.

 

Considering they want to use cost to force players to retire their items in favor of new ones.. it doesn't matter what system they use to increase costs. It's still going to be bad for the economy.

 

Why not? There would presumably be no upper limit on increases.

 

What do you think of Reforging?:

So basically the item doesn't break and you can repair it for a normal fee a certain number of "normal repairs" then it loses one of it's refinements. In order for it to be reforged to its former glory, it must be reforged from scratch using all the materials needed for every level of refinement again.

This way It is as if a crafter crafted a totally new item from scratch, but it keeps the full history of the item. This will allow a crafter to charge full price for such a repair!!! Because it's basically making the item from scratch, but you keep the same item history that's all.


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the item can be repaired for normal cost, and eventually it wears down and loses a refinement level. It can still be used, but it's not as powerful as before. Then you have the option to buy a new sword, or reforge your current sword to keep its item history.

This would help crafters keep their businesses going because reforging is like selling a new sword. Also it allows people to use their prized weapon with its item history in tact without having to have eternally increased item repair costs.

Reforging is optional as well. Since you can still use your aged item and have it repaired, but it isn't as powerful as it once was unless it gets reforged. I think that is win win for the crafters, and for the adventurers.

 

If this lowers the number of Items as loot on monsters then...

why not have a type of bulk order deed system. Then crafters can craft all kinds of items, and then turn it in for a reward.

However those items that get turned in, then get recycled in the game as loot for monsters!!!

 

To be honest... as described it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If it has the same requirements as building a new item then aren't you building a new item and then just transferring stats?

What I think of reforging, the item first has to be broken otherwise it's just a repair. So basically what you have a high level salvage.

So what I would do is something like so.. make the process a high level repair. Additional enchantments would be lost if there were any so it would have to be re-enchanted. (This wouldn't apply to titles or earned bonuses). With a fair risk of low durability (more frequent maintenance). You would have to master the specific craft completely and possibly have a high level of skill with its related processing skill to lower the risk of low durability.

Example: Master blacksmith with a high level smelting skill.

The whole idea of reforging though is pretty much limited to metals. You can't really repair wood that's been splintered or leather that's been ripped. You can sew holes clothes sure but it'll never be 'new' quality again. You can only really do that with metals.

Whether or not we really want a mechanism to prolong an item's usage even more is something that also needs to be considered. I'm not necessarily opposed to reforging. I think it'd actually be pretty cool.. but a further thought occurs that maybe we don't want an identical item returned.

A good example that keeps coming to mind is LotR. Anduin, forged from the shards of Narsil. Anduin and Narsil did not have identical properties. Probably because Narsil was originally forged by dwarves.. then reforged by elves.

Another example that comes to mind would be what if you actually retried to repair a broken staff? How would that work? You would basically need metal braces to hold the two pieces together. You've now gone from a wooden staff to a reinforced wooden staff. Leather armor to patched leather armor etc..

The end result might be just as effective.. or even more effective depending on what was done.. but almost never identical. So in this sense it's like using the broken item as an ingredient to make an alternate version you couldn't otherwise make. If you go with this thought process then you end up with a similar scenario as to what you were thinking where the crafter is making the 'new' item and the item retains its history.

I would not have it require the same amount of material as creating a new item though. That just doesn't make much sense to me.

 

if for example 1000 gold is a decent amount of money and the next repair costs 2000 and the next 3000 etc then people will likely just keep using the same weapon.

what the developers should do is make it increase at an exponential rate of some kind to ensure that people will replace the item, for example if the repair costs increased like the following......... 2000, 4000, 8000, 16000 etc then eventually they definitely will replace the item with a new one.

so i think a simple linear increase in cost is not good enough and it should be exponential in nature.

 

thanks for your opinion, but as you have already probably noticed in this thread I think that will cause people to never use their best items unless they are doing something special.

 

Well, if item degradation is fairly slow, and the cost for repairing increases exponentially every time you repair, you can easily implement the sort of reforging system you suggested. If reforging an item effectively reduces it to its core component (like reforging a Greatsword of Kobold Slaying might yield a greatsword blade [Kobold Slaying]), you can proceed to reassamble it and reset the repair counter. That way you get a pretty long while of using the item and retain the ability to protect its history when it becomes too expensive to continue repairing it.

I have no idea why he thought I was talking about a linear cost increase, though. Of course it would have to be exponential.

 

Good point. Non-metalic items should be destroyed at some point. Other than staffs and primitive spears I would have to say that most weapons can be reforged. Shafts can easily be replaced. It's the metal components that is the reforgable component. That will be the part of the item that remains, and should be enough to carry on the history of the item.

Leather armor, and cloth armor would likely be made by a tailor not a smith. They can be repaired with patches, but not reforged like you said. However I think those should progressively lose levels of enhancement until you retire the item. They can be repaired but not reforged, but these items don't carry any history as far as I know. There will be no elf slayer armor so it should be okay if it disappears.

 

The problem with this is that it would eventually cost more materials to repair than it did to create it to begin with. Also It still will cause people to use their second rate (easier to obtain or replace) items instead of their best items.

 

That's the point. Why would you reforge anything if it's cheaper to repair it?

 

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So when I described the reforging process I mentioned the sword would lose one level of refinement after a certain number of normal repairs. After some predetermined number of normal repairs the item loses one of its refinements from the crafting system. So the weapon is not as powerful as it once was. You can still use it just fine, and even continue to repair it normally, but it never returns to is most powerful state unless you spend the resources to reforge the sword.

The way I proposed it was that reforging would be like building a new item (same material cost as creating it from scratch), but you use the original sword as the base material. So it would keep the crafters in buisiness since people are still basically buying a full item, whether or not they replace the item entirely or reforge the item. It also gives the players the ability to keep the history of the item. Also it allows for players to feel safe to use their best items without fear of exponentially increasing material costs. It also guarantees that nobody can use a badass weapon indefinitely since it will eventually become less refined and aged. (but it has the option to be recreated keeping it's history)

 

I'm bumping this thread, because I really think ever increasing repair costs will be a problem in this game. I think Reforging or something similar to that will really help the crafters, and embolden players to feel comfortable using their best items in every combat.

I thought I would bring it to the table in case the devs didn't see this a while back @chillblain @Bzus

Something like this might really help the entire community, and allow us to keep our 1000 elf killer swords, but also allow crafters to keep charging full price. See thread for info.