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[POLL] R5 Updated Overland Map

Discussion in 'Release 5 Feedback' started by High Baron O`Sullivan, Apr 25, 2014.

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What is your opinion on the updated R5 dual-scale overland map?

  1. I like it.

    50 vote(s)
    28.1%
  2. I do not like it.

    11 vote(s)
    6.2%
  3. Would like if improvements were made (read my post below)

    31 vote(s)
    17.4%
  4. Do not like - and do not think I would ever like - even with improvements

    23 vote(s)
    12.9%
  5. Revert back to the 3D map

    63 vote(s)
    35.4%
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  1. Lord Gorynych

    Lord Gorynych Avatar

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    My vote for 3D
     
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  2. Lord_Darkmoon

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    To be fair we now have:

    Like the cloth style: 57 votes

    Don't like the cloth style: 73 votes

    But how representativ such a poll is is up to anyones guess...
     
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  3. selbie

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    As a side note I do hope they implement static maps that can be brought up at any time in the next release. I tend to lose my sense of direction in some areas and a quick glance at a map would help reorient myself.
     
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  4. Kaisa

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    Yeah it would be nice if you could carry around a cloth map and compass to help find out exactly where you are.
     
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  5. Lord_Darkmoon

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    A cool compass function would be that - at least optional - you had to really take out the compass to use it. So, if you open your inventory and "use" the compass, the player is holding it in his hand and some kind of arrow is pointing to the north. Then you would have to put the compass back into the backpack.
     
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  6. Turk Key

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    If you are standing in Owl's Head and want to know what direction to go to get to Kingsport, a map is what you need. We play in a world without a map because Kingsport is NOT a location. It is a hex choice. I guess it is just semantics, but if I lived in Los Angeles and want to know what direction San Francisco was, and how far it was, and what was between me and there, a map is what I need. I could stand on the street corner, point myself North and walk to get there. In Owl's Head, to get to Kingsport the direction is southeast. If I walk that direction in the game, I will run into the hex edge barrier and be forced to turn right or left, eventually getting to the hex exit point. The truth of the matter is that a map is only possible within a hex. It could guide you to the exit point.

    I understand your argument that what we have IS a map. Perhaps it is. It is a good representation of the world we play, is a good representation of the list of hexes we can choose and so forth. Peeps are really asking for a change in the physics of the world that the map represents. I would really like a map that helps me know where I am and where to go. Within a Hex, that is possible. It would be a map that functions like every other map I have ever known. I can accept the physics of the world we play in, so a moongate, a hex exit point, a gump list, it does not matter to me how I get to the next hex. However in the hex, be it a dungeon or town, I would like a map for direction and exploration.
     
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  7. mdsota152

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    A hex is no different than a grid of Lat/Long's. It's a map overlaid with a hex grid. I can have my marker on Owl's Head and see that Kingsport is to the south east... I can travel along the road or cut through the forest... Likewise I can pull up a map of say Virginia, I note Richmond and see that DC is to the north... I can take I95 or Route 1... both are geographically referenced on a map... (but like you said this is semantics... )

    The real issue is that what you are describing (to me anyways) is a seamless world... without load screens from what I can tell. That would be something like Skyrim, where yes, I can pull up a map to get my bearing and basically cross the entire world without a load screen... well until you get to a town... then just like a hex you are sent to a different area... which has boundaries and has limited exit points.

    I'm hoping they at least create a map that you can open up while in a hex. I also believe (I could have it wrong) I heard them say in one of the Deep Dives that eventually there would be encounters on the overland map... so you may want to pick your route more carefully some day... cutting through the forest may not be a good idea then.

    I'm not arguing over which I would prefer... I'll take what they can deliver at this point.
     
  8. Lord_Darkmoon

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    Now I may never see the map the same way I did before... You are right. The map is nothing more than a list of hexes with a graphical overlay. It would exactly work the same if we would choose our next location from a list. What we would need would be some kind of zoomed out world that has a purpose and would look like a world.
     
  9. Cabrens

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    Instead of having to choose between static and 3 D mobility environment, why not offering both like in any other game? Zoomable 3D when running, riding or flying, map view when checking destination and waypoints...The originality is that the map view will be improved compared to other games...
     
  10. Sunsanvil

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    I think I pointed that out after R4, likening it to an excel sheet of possible POIs. :)
     
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  11. mdsota152

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    Except I don't think a spread sheet will allow you to have encounters on the way and to pick which path to take very easily... which is why i have people handing me spread sheets all the time to make maps out of their data...
     
  12. UnseenDragon

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    I think you are reacting the wrong way. Starr was giving much of the advice based on the experience in SotA, in essence 'lessons learned'. Richard, et al. have stated many times that they have learned a ton from the Kickstarter experience and everything over the last year. If they had to do it again, there are many many many things they would do different.
     
  13. Joviex

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    Not sure I follow. Lessons learned? or learning?

    There is zero reason they cannot re-factor the way they communicate with the community NOW. Nothing stops them from applying said lessons learned.

    Those comments border on falsehoods, depending on what you expect by things like:

    They are making what they want, with opinions that agree with that mostly. As is self-evident in yet another community split, this time over the dual scale map that was promised as one thing and seemingly delivered as another. Such a last minute decision, and still no justification of the deviation from the original other than it wasn't working. What wasn't working? Why the fundamental change?

    That feeds the other statements he made:

    So where is the clear message? This is not the first, second, third, fourth or even fifth time this has happened. At what point do you "learn your lesson" and apply new methodologies to clearly communicate with your target audience?

    Which supports some of the earlier statements from people saying they just need more money/funds/pledges/another KS. Straight from his own mouth, don't over promise.

    So, is this "map", a key point in the selling of the game, as a DUAL SCALE map, not some ferryman from point A to B, watch the videos.... oversold? If so, why not apply the lessoned learned in statement #1 and #2 and say so.

    Color it however you want, statements from the developer and facts from the history of watching it unfold for 13 months hold other truth.
     
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  14. Turk Key

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    Aye, a seamless world would be great, but it may not possible in the instanced design we have. I for one will be happy with whatever they come up with for the traveling function. However what I hope is that we have a real map, perhaps an onscreen gump which shows the details of the hex we are in. One that pinpoints our location and shows routes, places of interest and etc. In a dungeon it could show the entire layout, or at least show those areas we have explored. Without such a map, one must remember the route to the depths of the dungeon and retrace one's steps to get back out to the hex border. I have already tried to keep track of my progress through the dungeons on graph paper. It was quite unsuccessful. I think I need a hex map graph because the cave tunnels are not all at right angles to each other. My suspicion is that some of them are running at 60 degree angles instead of 90.
     
  15. mdsota152

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    I agree with you entirely on this... but I have to admit i enjoy the challenge of mapping an irregular shaped area though... I used to go spelunking and I still go diving... and in both cases keeping your orientation can be a challenge as very little in nature is laid out in a grid... which is why I like a game that does not have dungeons and areas laid out in a grid and everything at right angles.

    But there does need to be a means to map your location which is why most games use a fog-of-war to cover unknown areas until you explore it.

    However, graph paper and compass will still work... you just need a mean to measure things (oddly enough I was toying with this over the weekend in game... started measuring my in game houses out with the small rug! Didn't want to use this method in the wilderness though... it has it's drawbacks... :confused:) Even tried to see if I could count footsteps...
     
  16. Lord_Darkmoon

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    The main reason for having a dual scale map is the ability to exchange "hexes" and create special areas like craters, cities under siege etc. I do not believe that the budget is the main reason as other developers created large, seamless open worlds with less budget. Take Wurm Online for example or Darkfall Unholy Wars or Gloria Victis.

    I am ok with a dual scale map. But the term is misleading. A dual scale map implies that there are two maps with different scales. We do not have two maps. And if you take the term and apply it to Ultima 4 or 5 it doesn't fit either, as there was no map at all. You had the "scene" view and a zoomed out view of the world.
    So what is SotA? One map and a scene view? A scene view and a zoomed out view? Either way the term dual scale map does not fit for the game.
     
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  17. mdsota152

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    I would have to agree that the term "Dual Scale Map" threw me for a loop when I started... as I only saw one "map"... the overview one.
     
  18. Kaynith Stormcaster

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    A map at max zoomout and the 3D upon zooming in would be awesome. But I don't think we'll see that happen, honestly.
     
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  19. Lord_Darkmoon

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    Yes, like Age of Wonders 3 and Endless Legend do it. That would be great.
     
  20. redfish

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    I'd rather the world map not underlaying the exploration map at all; would rather it be like the early Ultimas, where you had to reference a separate map and find your location if you were lost wanted to know where you are. I don't think it adds to fun for players to have instant awareness of where they are in the world. It makes it easier, but doesn't add to the fun of the game.
     
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