Concerning Control Points

RG talked about control points in the latest dev hangout. Most of this information had been previously discussed, but this time he added more nuance that confirmed what I had suspected. It seems like a great way to encourage choices (including to engage in PVP), and I'm really looking forward to it.

The subject of control points made me think about individual towns and how wonderful it would be if there were also control points within towns (many towns). Here is one example that I think many people would enjoy, the shady side of town.

The shady side of town is a small area or "district", perhaps it's just a single street that is different than all others. This area of town is darker, and has all kinds of npc characters of ill repute.

Because this area of town has unique dangers, it also has unique rewards. If you are in need of illicit goods (i.e. poison) or unspeakable services (i.e. an assassin) this is where you go. If you search for rare and illegal reagents, you will find them here. The Tesla Towers do not work in this area of town, a gap in the otherwise perfect protection. Because this part of town is dangerous, players are required to opt into PVP before they enter. If there is to be pickpocketing in the game, it will be done here. No guards will help you here. The shady part of town is best avoided.

 

Interesting but technically troublesome.

Firstly you're not really touching on how this area of town would be a control point. Presumably players would have to either help or fight the controlling faction to gain control of the district but that would result in constant warefare in town. It would quickly become a PvP hunting ground. You'd have to place a timer on it so it could only change hands every so often.

Problem with the PvP flag. A lot of non-PvPers are going to see this area and want to check it out. Many would wander in without even thinking about it.. presumably they'd be hit with a dialogue at the border which would be pretty annoying.

There's also a problem with the shield. This area would have to be outside the shield radius.. assuming the town has a shield at all. I really don't think the shield works in terms of protecting a solid space.. but rather it's more like an outer shell. The concept of the shield "not working" in a particular area implies there's a great big hole in it that would render it useless.

You'd also need a way to define a limited area within a scene as PvP only while the rest of the scene is not and that comes with it's own set of problems.

 

I can see an entire town becoming more dangerous, with certain town options becoming available if the cumulative bad karma was great enough.

 

I'd say it's more technically challenging. But you bring up good questions that I'm happy to answer...

I didn't bring up my ideas only because I've found that the more detailed I get the less people read and think about what I'm saying.

The control point aspect could function in multiple ways, just like they would on the global map. There's really no difference it's just a micro verses macro adaptation. One example would be that if left unchecked by the players, an NPC thieves guild would gradually take over.

They would do that with the global check points too. And as long as any player is given the choice prior to entering, I don't see the problem. Yes, the on screen notification would be annoying so players could turn it off. There could be other ways to notify them too. Eventually people would "just know" that if I go down that alley I'm leaving myself open to additional danger.

Like say in underground dungeons or NPC spawn points like graveyards that may already work that way? I don't see this as much of a problem. You can easily build in lore to support why part of the town isn't covered by the Tesla Tower. It adds spice to the game having areas that are different like this. And again so long as every player has the choice to participate or not, it's in complete compliance with the SOTA MO.

Not really...you don't have to do it like that...you could literally just provide a new zone entrance (like the basements only this might be an alley way) that goes to the other area. It would be cooler if it wasn't a zone, but we can't have everything.

 

I think Baron Drocis Fondorlatos has something here. What if the Underworld was used in this situation.

Instead of a street, it was a dark alleyway that led down underground where yes, you'd get the "THIS IS A BAD PLACE! BE PREPARED FOR ANYTHING" gump, but you could also click a tick to Not Show Again. Within this area, the Tesla Towers do not work, guards do not patrol here (for fear of death, lack of control, paid to not look, etc. depending on the town/area), and you'll find the unscrupulous folk here.

Here are some quick ideas, feel free to pick apart and/or add to:

How could this area be a Control Point?
- Every so often (hours or days) a Town Crier will announce that the "Ebon District" is becoming unruly.
- Players can go to the Ebon District and choose a side to fight for. Probably 3 sides max or depends on the area. (all numbers are rough numbers used only for examples)
- The "bad guys" might have the objective to plunder as many storefronts as possible in the Ebon District
- The "good guys" might have the objective of putting out fires, fighting off the unruly ones, something worthy.
- All this PvP would be consensual because you knowingly entered the Ebon District while it was unruly and therefore have accepted the terms of this arrangement.
- Whichever team achieves their objective first "wins" for X amount of time. The Ebon District is now under the winners control. What does this mean?
- New NPCs that sell goods only available when they are present/legal, quests, rewards, etc. Perhaps you need to gain their confidence before they deal with you?
- New monsters, puzzles, objectives for BOTH sides
- After the event is over, the Ebon District would become Non-PvP and anyone can go in without getting into a fight

Why would you want to control this point?
Now you have to think, not everyone that is on the "bad side" is evil or a PK. Maybe they were hired by a crafter (or are one) that want a specific type of poison, but the only Alchemist that can train that potion appears when the "bad guys" 'win'. You get the point (hopefully).

If not, post some more details here.

 

The problem with the tesla tower is how the tower works. Assuming the tower covers a radius (which to me makes the most sense) then either something is inside that radius or it's not. It makes absolutely no sense for the tower to be working and still have it not working in sections inside its radius. For that matter on further thought.. why would a tesla tower factor into it at all? The technology is designed to keep bad guys out.. like a magical wall. Anything that's already inside shouldn't be effected. For that matter there's never been any indication that it would effect anything directly related to PvP.

If players are able to turn off PvP warnings where you have a PvP only area inside a non-PvP only scene then you've got issues. People will turn it off.. forget where danger zones area and wander in without thinking.. get killed.. complain etc etc. If you limit this to new zones than the whole 'dark alley' scenario is moot.

I suppose what we're really talking about is dividing a town between multiple scenes where the edge of the scene cuts through the town.

 

A castle siege in many games is a multi step fight. And it could work a little like warhammer if they're really trying to allow 100v100 to participate, but can only really handle 20v20 in an instance. So first there's a siege at the gate / walls, then it moves on to multiple next steps to control, etc.

 

Well, that's why I mentioned the Underworld.

Perhaps the Tesla Tower only works above ground. There is always a leak, a workaround, an exploit if you will, in everything. It's only designed to protect the city, not keep the bad guys out. Who's to say I'm not a "bad guy" but I'm in the city, in your Tesla Tower, shutting it down? Perhaps the Tesla Towers themselves are an objective....

Now, if you decide to click Do Not Show Again and then enter that same area you've gone in before and not expect to be attacked during the event, then shame on you, simply put. You, yourself, decided to say Do Not Show Again. Maybe this can be on a per zone basis so if you click it on one, it still shows up in another PvP zone until you tick it off. But to be honest, if you are entering a PvP area, I'm positive there will be some sort of icon, announcement, system event, etc that alerts you to entering a PvP area besides the gump. It shouldn't/won't be a "surprise oops" moment.

 

I would agree it's the player's responsibility.. but you've only to look at some of the posts in the forum to know that enough players will make a stink without realizing it's their own fault to cause problems for Portalarium. It's simply better to avoid the problem entirely. It's just too much for players to remember every single PvP only area.

As for "bad guys" I meant the painfully obvious like the undead and enemies laying siege to the town.

 

I've looked at almost EVERY post on these forums...... *holds back a sob* so yes I am well aware of the base. I am leaning towards optimistic on our players abilities, comprehension and just general.... yea I'm optimistic.

Forget remembering every PvP area, you're right, that might be difficult BUT.....

IF a gump, a system message, an event announcement, color coding, icons, big bold letters and so on and so forth cannot get the player's attention to know that "HEY! LISTEN! You're in a PvP zone. Be prepared!".... well then, I might regret saying this (but not really because someone has to):

They deserve to get PKed.

I'm positive they'll learn quickly to be more attentive of their surroundings. They're not going to lose much with the systems in place so the player should take it as a learning experience and apply it to their adventuring from then on.

 

It's all pretty moot though I'm thinking mainly of a scenario where there is no zoning.. where you'd have a back alley smack in the middle of town. If you're zoning into a PvP area that's a different story. That's really no different than entering a PvP only area from the overland map.

 

Very true.

I doubt we'll see a Non-PvP zone with an area that has PvP enabled. I'm pretty sure it'll be area/zone/instance wide too. It'd be quite interesting though if it could be pulled off though...

 

heh technically I know a way you could define the PvP area inside a non-PvP scene. It would be pretty easy. I just don't think it's worth the effort since you also have to resolve all the issues that come with it. I'd rather see something like a rogue town or outpost / trading post as a control point.

In terms of what control points can be there are plenty of interesting options you could go with. Really any location far enough away from major settlements would do. All you really need is a reason to fight over something.

 

EXACTLY!

I know it's possible, but as you said, the effort for what's being done isn't worth the hassle to Portalarium.

I still believe that the OP's idea is valid and that there should be dark alleys IN a town that TAKE you to a place where this can happen, as it will add a sense of "danger" and another route that the "Malevolent Ones" can take. That'd make it a great reason to fight.

 

hey I'm all for a seedy side of town. Lot of good potential there. I'm just not sure it's the most ideal scenario for control points. Maybe for getting to a control point.

 

Bowen, I know what you are saying and for the most part I agree but...

If the devs took out everything in the game where people can die because they don't (want to/can't) think for themselves we wouldn't have a game to play. Ignorance is no excuse. Unless you just want to play any of the thousands of games where the game holds your hand throughout the entire experience. Personally, I'm sick of such endeavors. It's reasons such as these that every quest won't have an icon, click through the flavor text, run along the mapped out waypoints etc etc. But then again, common sense is a rare commodity these days.

 

Consider the scenario we're talking about here. Players wouldn't die just because they wandered into a dangerous area without thinking. They'd be dying in PvP at the hands of other players without realizing they were opting in for that in a game where that specific risk is supposed to be optional. Plus they'd be doing it in a scene that is otherwise a safe-zone. (Again I'm talking about a situation with no-zoning).

 

Wouldn't they just be flagged for no PvP? If people don't want to PvP they should never disable a warning telling them they are entering a possibly dangerous area. I would have to think there would be some sort of zoning since we already know this game won't have the immersion levels of UO. And I say this simply because of the different flagging issues (PvP/PvE) and what the Devs have said concerning entering PvP areas. Maybe I am misunderstanding something here though.

 

The OP was not so specific in regards to zoning. The idea put forth was that part of a town is the control point. Since all towns so far have been contained in a single scene, this implies an area within an otherwise 'safe' zone to be an exception. Now imagine if you will.. getting a pop up every time you walk past a particular street or building or what have you because you're near the border of this area even when you've no intention of going that way. Annoying thought right? Now imagine you had the option of turning that particular warning off. After awhile you'd forget about it right? So one day you're walking through one of many towns you visit and decide to take a short-cut. Bam you get killed by another player. What the hell???

Now understanding we're talking a purely hypothetical scenario. It's pretty certain I think that all PvP areas would require a transition. I brought up this scenario for thought since the OP was vague on how you enter the contested area.

 

I see what you are saying now, and yes that would be obnoxious. (Although I still maintain that after that many warnings one should remember).

There are lots of places in owl's head, basements and such that were different zones. Could certainly just have an underground as someone in this thread has said. That would limit the issues with the tesla zones and with flagging. The tesla could still protect the entirety of the town and non PvPers could still have their flags and warnings not be popping up in town until they try to gain entrance to certain parts of the town/city's underworld. A possible two birds one stone scenario.