Petition against the Auction House approach. -- (Dev) Replied

Discussion in 'Crafting & Gathering' started by Mitch [MGT], Mar 14, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Taibo

    Taibo Avatar

    Messages:
    21
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    3
    No auction house.
     
  2. TroubleMagnet

    TroubleMagnet Avatar

    Messages:
    263
    Likes Received:
    243
    Trophy Points:
    40
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Austin
    I'm going to come out somewhat on the other side of this argument in that I really don't want to see a different vendor in the marketplace for each player with something to sell. It creates a ton of clutter and they're rarely organized well.

    What I hope we get are several NPC vendors that will sell items or take buy orders for a class of goods located in the market area of each major city. In towns and villages there might be a few of these that deal in items that are common locally. There also should be some vendors that will deal with any type of good, but for a larger cut. Property owners would get a vendor that will sell any type of good at a lower cost than the NPC vendors (or free for KS backers).

    I think that being able to browse the vendors from anywhere might be ok. You'd still need to go there to actually buy (or at least pick up) the goods or list new ones. If the game doesn't support it I bet someone will create a web site to try and do it anyhow. This is essentially how EVE Online works, you can buy from anywhere but have to pick up the goods in person and you can only sell where you're at. You have to weigh your savings vs. the long (and dangerous for some locations) trip to pick up the goods.

    I also think how fast and dangerous travel is will have a big impact on the economy. I expect this to take some serious tweaking during the beta to get right. Moon gate connections are the obvious thing to look at, but travel danger (due to PvP or random monster encounters) should be a factor as well. Should be interesting to see how it plays out.
     
  3. Laughing Vergil

    Laughing Vergil Avatar

    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Location:
    Vancouver, WA
    Please allow me to come out on the third hand of this debate. Auction Houses do not have to behave as they do now, and modifying them to function more as real auction houses do would be an interesting game mechanic.

    Consider - in the real world, no auction house shows goods EVERYWHERE IN THE WORLD. An auction house is local. If someone wishes to participate in the auction for the Glittering Gold Sword of Lord British's Third Cousin (twice removed), then they must either travel to the auction house holding the auction, or delegate an agent to bid for them (for an added cost). Why can't auction houses in SoTA act similarly?

    Also, most real-world auction houses do not hold auctions at all hours of all days. Many don't handle just anything (Auctioning off the dead animal bones? Not here at Sir Ritz's Imperial Auctions, sir!) (I'm sorry sir, we do not have an expert on Jewelry available to us, so we do not auction jewels and gems. Now if you had dead animal bones....)

    So how would this work in a MMO? Here is what I envision.

    The capitol would have those auction houses that normally get the rarest and most expensive items. Auctions there might be fairly continuous, or once a month, depending on the volume of items that come in. To make them more interesting, a random smattering of items that do not come from players at all could be seeded in these auction houses. Also in the capitol would be auction houses that sell all levels of items, and probably all types of items as well.

    In major cities, there will usually be a few different auction houses. Types, values, and frequency of auctions would vary from city to city, and some may not have any. Some subsidiary cities might also take items on consignment for the large auction houses in the capitol, which will save you a trip. However, watch out for confidence men looking to convince unaware adventurers that they are legitimate businessmen.

    A town might have an auction house, but not normally, and these auction houses will tend to sell anything. This is where the possibility really exists to pick up a big bargain. Villages? No Auction House.

    The auctions will be scheduled, and (for game play purposes) a given collection of items will usually be up for auction for 24 hours. Characters can either check in and bid, or give an agent a maximum bid and let the agent post bids as needed. If something doesn't sell, unless it is a rare item with a large innate value, the auction house will not normally accept the items for re-listing.

    To compliment this AH system, there could be merchants who accept consignments. A Swordsmith in Huddingtown may buy your sword from you, or may allow you to put it up for sale in their store, on consignment. A consignment sale will cost the person selling the item from 10% to 40% of the sale price, depending on the merchant's policies. Usually, a merchant will only accept something related to what they, themselves sell. A very successful merchant, renowned for their goods, will not usually accept items on consignment. Consignment stores could exist anywhere a merchant exists. But they will not accept more items than they could reasonably accommodate in their store.

    Well, there's my vision. This would make auction houses useful, but not too useful; eventually lead to auction hubs for certain goods; and allow resale at more than just auction houses. Possibly, character merchants could specialize in consignment sales, and in theory a Guild could form as a merchant clan, and coordinate mercantile efforts. Additionally, information gatherers could travel to different auction houses, find out what will be up for auction in the near future (most auction houses pre-plan their auctions, and make the information on what will be up for auction available, so as to draw in more customers) and disseminate the information for a fee. They could also have tasks to look for specific items up for auction, and perhaps even act as auction agents.

    Opinions?
     
  4. Linthu

    Linthu Avatar

    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    20
    Gender:
    Male
    I completely agree - no AH! People will pick their hot spots based on quality, reliability, security, etc - rather than scrolling to the bottom of a glorified spreadsheet and buying the cheapest. Vendors are more fun imo.
     
  5. Nhili Dragon

    Nhili Dragon Avatar

    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    158
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Colorado, USA
    NO WoW type auction house please. I prefer vendors and even DAoC type Vendor sellers were preferable to WoW. It rather looks as if they are thinking that way from what I read.
     
  6. Azoetia Dragon

    Azoetia Dragon Avatar

    Messages:
    20
    Likes Received:
    22
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    +1 on brendthess suggestion. I think that would work very well indeed - especially with item restrictions stopping one place becoming a trading super hub.
     
  7. Funjimmy

    Funjimmy Avatar

    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Gender:
    Male
    I agree to no AH, and I would support a limit to the number of vendors a house could have to help remove the "sea" of static NPC's standing around homes...
     
  8. Sitara

    Sitara Avatar

    Messages:
    9
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    i am absolutely for no auction house. i find it really takes away from game immersion.. it's so much more fun to be able to set up your own vendor in your home, or someone else "vendor house" (or in areas designated for vendors for people without houses, if such areas are put into the game).

    and on the side of the consumer.. it's also much more fun to run around (gives another reason for exploring villages and towns, etc), and shop at player vendors as opposed to standing in an auction house staring at some menu.

    :)
     
  9. Sir Tim

    Sir Tim Avatar

    Messages:
    312
    Likes Received:
    181
    Trophy Points:
    43
    @Mitch

    I have to agree. a universal AH is anti-MMO experience; an anti-socialization experience. There is something to be said for transporting your goods to a local town that needs it.

    Even a local Auction House removes the experience of shopping at a craftsman vendors. I could warm up to it if it was done in such a way that you bid on a certificate then have to go to the vendor to pick it up or the seller has to go to you. Your money is held for a period of time and if you dont claim it or if the vendor doesnt provide it, its a point against you and you AH fees raise, or your banned from the AH for a period of time. But not a system where you bid, then the item magically appears in your 'mailbox' or inventory.

    It could really ruin the Role Play experience for those of us that was to REALLY role playing a merchant.
     
  10. jondavis

    jondavis Avatar

    Messages:
    1,185
    Likes Received:
    726
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Auction house = No!
     
  11. DragonParadox

    DragonParadox Avatar

    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I actually prefer an auctionhouse or bazaar approach.

    I'm an introverted person and bartering is certainly not my forte. If I'm dealing with a stranger I generally want my interaction to be short. :p

    Mind you, I don't even mind like the old Ultima Online where it had npc vendors to sell stuff.
     
  12. Saraken

    Saraken Avatar

    Messages:
    22
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    3
    +1 to the suggestions that we have a way to at least search for items that we want, then go and visit that vendor.

    Another aspect I would like to see is that people put up contracts for items and crafters can fill those orders - sort of a reverse selling method.

    Would also like to see some sort of bartering system too. So you can pay for an item with gold OR a particular item the seller is after.
     
    thekroax likes this.
  13. Mabusian

    Mabusian Avatar

    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    3
    But don't forget people like me who just don't have the time they had for Ultima III-VII anymore. I want to craft but I want to spend my time with crafting and not with searching the ingredients. So I'd definitely need a way to get the items without much effort. Standard AHs do this for me but I accept that others don't like it. I could accept a solution where I quickly find a vendor (maybe even without the fixed price) and then need to travel to him to get the item. But then I should be able to reserve the item for some time, not that I spend half an hour traveling for a rare item only to find it gone.
     
  14. E n v y

    E n v y Avatar

    Messages:
    4,641
    Likes Received:
    12,961
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    England
    I have to say I am fairly anti auction houses in the same way I am anti search systems for items. To be honest it makes things just a little bit too easy for my liking.

    I believe strongly in player vendors, the good ones will create a good reputation and will attract people into towns and villages. People will seen know who specializes in what and which vendors are worth visiting.

    I also quite like the system that was shown in Aion where a player can go 'afk' and set up a portable vendor. This might be worth thinking about at some point (maybe restrict to certain areas such as a market square in a town).
     
    Luxuria likes this.
  15. macharborguy

    macharborguy Avatar

    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I have no problem with an AH-style interface listing items for sale, HOWEVER, the sale should be done person-to-person. The AH-interface is just to get players to contact eachother, the rest is up to them.

    I do NOT want a bunch of random NPC or players just standing around shouting "ITEM FOR SALE", but I also dont want an AH with tons of players gathered around it lagging the town.

    A globally browsable BBS of items or services for sale would be good (in the case of services, this NEEDS to be templated, rather than free text entry, so we dont have any abusive or offensive stuff in it, so a template would be "sword of hire" or "miner for hire", etc). Since it would be globally accessible, the chances of towns lagging out would be far less.

    We dont need to go completely authentic with how things work. Example: what is the difference between the WoW auction house and a billboard set up in the center of town? NOTHING, you still would have tons of players gathered around it, some even intersecting their character model with it to grief other players by making it difficult to click on the Board.

    Make the market globally viewable anywhere in the world, but dont make the actual transactions happen via that interface. Just make it a contact section, so you could say "hey, I am interested in that sword you have listed, lets make a deal". Once the seller gets that message, he could temporally delist the item by clicking a checkbox on it, attempt to make the deal. If it goes thru, the item gets delisted completely. If the deal doesnt go thru, he just clicks the checkbox to relist it.

    Since the transaction would not happen via the UI, you and the other player would HAVE to meet in person, or use some sort of in-game mail system. Hell, maybe the whole contact is via the in-game mail system.

    And if not globally accessible market UI, at least make it accessible anywhere in a city, possibly unique to that city. Maybe like how EVE Online works where each system has their own market, and prices fluctuate depending on where you are. You might find someone selling a sword in CityA and know for a fact that 1 (in-game) day away in CityB you could resele that sword for a higher price. I know I would be one of the first people to go all Profiteering in the game world, collecting items from place to place, selling them in other places. The limiting factor at that point is that I have to travel from town to town and check out what items are being sold for.


    This idea of selling services could also be extended to "want ads". I could list "Looking To Buy 100 Iron Ore @ 3 gold coins per ore". Players could then contact me, either saying "i have 20 iron ore" or 100 iron ore, or even "i have 200 iron ore, i'll sell it to you 2 gold per ore". I could also list "looking for an escort thru this dangerous area of the world, will pay X gold coins now + 7 when we reach Alderann"... wait a sec...


    Make the market competitive, but also communicative.
     
  16. macharborguy

    macharborguy Avatar

    Messages:
    14
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    basically, the market we get needs to be easy to use, not detrimental to the overall stability of the game engine (lagging towns because everyone is gathered around an AH or vendors), and gets players communicating with eachother from a basic transaction all the way to forming a business agreement to supply eachother with needed goods.
     
  17. TEK

    TEK Legend of the Hearth

    Messages:
    689
    Likes Received:
    1,428
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I too agree that no auction house of any kind is a must. Having one will ruin player vendors. It will ruin the need to have your house in a great location, location, location!

    Please don't waste development resources on such a thing.

    Please don't ruin our hard earned pledge dollars for housing by devaluing that investment with an AH.
     
  18. Spilldog

    Spilldog Avatar

    Messages:
    1
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    First post! Excuse any noobidity while I get myself up to speed. This is s a good topic, and lots of great points made.

    So this is really about implementing the game economy and our concerns.
    - How do we stop immersion breaking Wow Auction house syndrome.
    - Can we avoid Vendors/stall sprawl and having hundreds of players gathered around a billboard lagging a trade hub to death?
    - Can we make it easy to use
    - Can we give those lucky sods with real estate some reason to setup a shop? (What?s the point of having a house on main St, if nobody needs to go there?)

    Here are a few (Probably horrible!) suggestions off the top of my head ?

    Have regional markets ? run by trade guild(s), the trade guild has a network of agents in a region that will provide listings of items that players/crafters/retailers are trying to sell/buy/trade. (Ease of access)
    If you choose to place an order the guild will facilitate the sale, but you are going to pay a fee to them, as is the seller/buyer. The item is also not going to instantly appear in your mail box. It?s in the vendor?s shop, two towns over, waiting for you to pick it up. You can do so, or for another fee, the guild will dispatch one of there agents to pick it up for you, but it?s still going to take a bit of time for the poor fella to run there and back.
    So regional markets, with higher costs to buyers and sellers for the advantage of easy Auction House functionality, with a less immersion breaking instant access to new items.

    Now the person who wants to setup his stall/vendor shop still needs to get something out of this, so you could have that person setup a shop at the front-end of his property. All his items can either be sold via the merchants guild (as long as he is paying for the service), or he can try and sell them directly to players who visit his shop. There needs to be a reason for both the buyer and the seller to do this. So first off there are no extra fees to be paid by either person. Also it?s right there in the buyers hands, so it?s cheaper and faster. There is plenty of scope to add other gameplay elements here? you could have the seller benefit for local sales, with cheaper rent on his house from a town which is pleased to have local trade.

    If you don?t have a property you can still go to the local agent and have him sell your stuff.

    Obviously tons more you can do to flesh this out, but I?m going on at this point?
     
  19. jb2005

    jb2005 Avatar

    Messages:
    2
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I like how the action house in EQ2 was. You could pay a fee and get it in the AC or pay the players selling cost by going to their home and buying the item.
    I defiantly didn't like WoWs AC.
     
  20. Jonathon.Doran

    Jonathon.Doran Avatar

    Messages:
    302
    Likes Received:
    165
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Peoria IL
    From chat logs:

    <i>
    Chris
    March 22, 2013 ? 10:41 am
    Vendors at houses yes. There will also be a bazaar for those without a house but it will take a % cut
    </i>

    Edit: let me clarify. Chris is speaking of a regional market here. I think they are planning for each village/town/city to have such a bazaar.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.