Open PvP Justice System

Discussion in 'PvP Gameplay' started by WebTeam, Jun 17, 2014.

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  1. WebTeam

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    I am completely against the ability to slide in and out of Open PvP. I think it just moves griefers into PvE cause there is no point to going to PvP for them if only combat ready players are in that world. But it also can ruin the two play modes economy. Personally, should be one way to PvP with a warning, OR allow people to have a character in each mode with no transfer.

    But putting all that aside.

    I havent heard ANYTHING on the justice system in the Open PvP mode. What do you do about murderers? About looters?

    Anyone know if the team expressed any thoughts on this? I know LB is keen on it... but not sure what he is thinking on it. Anyone with info please respond. :)
     
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  2. Bohica

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    There will be a karma system and your karma is reflected on all characters across your account. You will receive titles and NPC's will react differently twords you based on your karma.

    And you are correct about griefers not having a thing to do. That was the whole point of this system. If you want to PvP, then you will be able to PvP with anyone else who is ready and willing to do so. No more preying on the unexpected players.
     
  3. Ristra

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    I think they are sitting on this info because it will require plot spoilers if they give it out.
     
  4. WebTeam

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    That is not what I was saying. Griefers will grief in the PvE world. You haven't avoided them at all. You have only changed where they will grief.

    So what I am saying is instead of SOLVING the griefing problem with a sense-able justice system, they only pushed it off.

    But the justice system doesnt sound to robust from what you are describing. If someone wants to play an outlaw and the only thing that is going to happen to them is that they are going to get people being "mean" to them... boring. I was hoping it would be like forest rangers hunt and look for you, or that you need to hide in caves for safety and live like a vagrant. :)

    Anyone have any other info... would be nice to hear.

    Thats too bad. I want to give feedback on their thoughts. I am hoping they let us participate in the justice system. That would be a blast! Players as content! Love those games!
     
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  5. Rufus D`Asperdi

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    Griefers will grief regardless of the system imposed. Circumventing the system, or otherwise playing it, becomes entertainment in and of itself.
    There will be an Ignore feature. There will be no Avatar collision. Jumping is already implemented.
    If the griefers are not able to attack me, or steal from me, as I am unlikely to flag myself PvP, and would absolutely never flag myself PvP if you had your wish, then there is limited damage they can do.

    I'll take it.
     
  6. Bohica

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    I don't remember saying anything about npc's being "mean". I said they will act differently, we just don't know how different. There is a whole slew of information that we just do not know. Their has been things that have been said like NPC's attacking people on sight, being generally rude, higher prices etc. We just do not know.

    I am interested on how a justice system would prevent griefing altogether? If anything, I feel it will promote griefing. Just as in UO Karma / fame system, people went out on killing sprees just to have the "Dreaded Lord" displayed on there paper dolls.
     
  7. WebTeam

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    There are a few posts in here about justice systems. Some of them would defiantly prevent griefers. You should take a look at some of the work people have posted in the PvP section of the forums on justice systems and what not. Defiantly great stuff.
     
  8. Bowen Bloodgood

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    I'm sensing a slight variation in people's definition of "griefer" here.
     
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  9. Bohica

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    Now i am just confused........
     
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  10. PrimeRib

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    Sigh. Again?

    Reputation based systems are predicated on two things: That all participants share similar motivations. And that all participants have roughly the same skin in the game. Neither is true in this case. Which is why these systems don't work, have never worked, and cannot work.

    The "good player" is trying to follow the main quest line, gather resources for crafting, etc. He cares about the virtues and being a good guy. He cares how NPCs think of him. He likes his stuff. Etc. The "bad player" cares about none of this. He cares about ruining the good players day. He thinks being red and being labeled a criminal is cool. You can see where this is going...the same place it has always gone before.

    A criminal system doesn't deter the "bad players" at all. It's actually rewarding them according to their values. But it does stop "good players" from fighting back. If they catch the "bad player" alone in the woods at a disadvantage, they can do nothing because they don't want to be a criminal. In fact, they may even be deterred from fighting back at all when attacked and just let the "bad player" rack up murder counts.

    I could go on. But we've seen this play out over 15+ years. The game theory is very simple. If you want PvP, make it symmetric.
     
  11. WebTeam

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    I dont know how. I thought I was using fairly plain English. My apologies.

    Just know that it can work and the ideas for it working are here in the forums.
     
  12. Umbrae

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    Just to post my point of view, justice systems in game - that doesn't involve Terms of Service enforcement by the Developer that includes the banning of the player - would do little to discourage griefing or control player behavior. This just becomes another game to play. If a justice system is included to enrich the game play for "criminals" I would not have a problem with it; however, justice system led by players become corrupt and automated system are just part of the game. Only Developers enforcing rules on players have any hope of being fair; although even that would probably not do much to affect behaviors.

    That said, I have not heard any information on a planned justice system. In fact, I vaguely remembered the Dev's saying there will not be one at all at least EP1; however, I don't have proof of that and the statement I remember was brief and in passing, so I will in no way lawyer them.

    I think the Karma system and its affects on NPC reaction will be a better system than a justice system in general. This will make the whole world be dynamic to your choices regardless of whether its kicking chickens or killing n00bs. :)
     
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  13. Bohica

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    You say you have not heard anything about a justice system dealing with pvp, looting, murderers etc. But then say the pvp forum is full of threads on the subject... so which is it?
     
  14. WebTeam

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    You asked "I am interested on how a justice system would prevent griefing altogether?" I told you that the forums are full of great ideas on it. I'm not sure how it was difficult to understand. My apologies.
     
  15. Isaiah

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    Since we have a completely player craft-able items in game, then why not have a completely player run justice system.

    All we would need is a minimal murder/criminal flagging system, and some way to find out who's committed what crimes etc.

    Perhapse even some of the new PvP skills could include a skill for bounty hunters, that will notify the bounty hunter of PKs in the area, and what their bounty is, and also track them to where they are currently at.

    That skill was just an idea, however the player policed world is better then having super guards that kill you in one hit. There's already some guilds that will be in SotA that have been PK hunter guilds in the past. So let people organize their own player run justice.

    EDIT: If somebody has an idea of how the game mechanics can lend a hand for allowing players to enact justice for the world, please share.
     
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  16. Ristra

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    The comparison between player crafting and player justice is hard to make.

    Crafted items have structure. A set recipe with specific tools and skill requirements. Players choose the item to craft then gathers the resources and if they have the skill they produce an item.

    How can a justice system be framed to be that structured and not a group of players enforcing their will on other players.
     
  17. Isaiah

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    How about not structure it at all and leave criminal justice to the PK hunters.
     
  18. Ristra

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    The PK get's their game, the PK hunter get's their game, the PK target gets.....?
     
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  19. PrimeRib

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    If you want to make it player driven, then first remove all the flagging / criminal rules, as those get in the way. (As detailed above.)

    At this point you basically have the wild west. There's no real law but everyone is polite because everyone has a gun. This would more or less work as well as these forums policing themselves if there were no mods.
     
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  20. Isaiah

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    Well the reason we need criminal/murderer tagging and tracking is that we need to have some basic system in place to track crimes otherwise how do you know if somebody is a killer or not?

    Say you're storming an opposing guild's castle, and all of a sudden you are attacked by some of your allies. That is a situation that would be clearly wrong. Such a person should be flagged a criminal or a murderer. *however I hope they allow people to attack allies, but just not without consequences*

    So we do need something in place to keep track of who is a deliberate murderer, and who is not.

    This basic system shouldn't get in the way of guild wars, control points, and all those other activities, but it would server a basic purpose of providing accountability to basic laws of nature (murder is a crime), however those who bring the murderer to justice don't have to be the game, it should be the players.
     
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