"Elves as a playable race", how does it fit in New Britannia lore?

Discussion in 'Fire Lotus Tavern' started by AvatarGG, Jun 20, 2014.

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  1. Gabriel Nightshadow

    Gabriel Nightshadow Avatar

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    It would make sense to see ninjas and samurais in Ardoris, since the city is Asian-themed and ruled by the Shogun Siranto. Who's to say if some rogue ninja or samurai left the city to seek their fortune elsewhere in New Britannia...


    As far as elves go, we know that there are other species of elves dwelling on the mainland...The easiest way to explain different bodies (whether it be human, elf, dwarf, orc, kobold, etc.) is that your soul or essence traveled through the lunar rift and inhabited a body in New Britannia (i.e., like in the t.v. series Quantum Leap) - your "real body" is still back on Earth, probably in some sort of coma and inhabited by the soul or essence of the New Britannian whom you replaced ;) (The New Britannian is probably not happy being trapped in that state :mad:)
     
  2. smack

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    We got Elves...then perhaps Ninjas. I guess Pandas are next...:p
     
  3. Gubbles

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    The game won't be complete without Ninja Ratmen.
     
  4. rild

    rild Avatar

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    +1 this

    I don't have a problem with Avatars (Travelers may be a more appropriate term in a way) manifesting as other races. In some cases I see it being unintentional (RP story wise), but think of all the players who want to play elves. They go through the moongate dreaming of the fantasy worlds they have read about their whole lives. They have dreamt of seeing Elves and being elves. This desire manifests, but they find themselves incarnated into the body of the Verdas people, the elves of New Britannia.

    Additionally, I think that the Verdas and the Kobolds (I should like to know if they have another name as well, or what they call themselves) have vast potential as complex player races in Shroud. Much more potential than what I see in most games. I simply feel it would be cheating the story to change the elves to fit player expectations, rather than given them a new and perhaps more meaningful experience.

    Ultima 6 had one of the best and most immersive stories EVER. There is an opportunity to replicate or revisit that experience and really touch people.

    THAT'S what I think of when Richard says "spiritual successor to Ultima"
     
  5. Karrolanth

    Karrolanth Avatar

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    That's an interesting thought, and I could see that working as a way to actually put a player in an elf body if they knew that the rift was going to take them to a different world. I still think that elves need their own separate quest line, but that idea in general is a feasible one. And I'm willing to say that despite my personal dislike for including elves as a playable race. :)

    Kobolds get a mention in the wiki entry on Arabella that I mentioned earlier (in more detail than elves, in fact), and they also sound like a very interesting race - not necessarily something I personally would want to play as, but definitely much more complex than your average D&D kobold. Just one paragraph of the four:

    "Of all the creatures that were discovered in the Formorian era, none are more challenging, more fascinating and more terrible than the Kobold. Named, like the elves to the south, after a legend long forgotten, the Norguard at first thought them oafish and weak. They were not huge of stature, nor were they particularly savage in their first combats. Yet, the kobolds, like the men they fight, are far more than an initial glance would suggest. They are far from stupid; in fact they may be among the cleverest of mankind’s foes. They form armies, fight with tactics learned from hundreds of battles, and use unique weapons forged with their own knowledge of metal and steel. In fact, the few who have survived the kobold warrens report a level of industry in many ways beyond that of man."

    In both cases, elves and kobolds appear to have been given names by long-distant Avatars based on stories and ideas from Earth, and I do feel that it might have been better to officially refer to them by their own names for their race. That said, if players in SotA go into the world and see pointy-eared archers they're going to say, "Vertas? They look like elves, why not just call them that?" Looks like a duck, etc. You can't often win against common perceptions like that. ;)
     
  6. Sergorn

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    I'm honestly beginning to agree with this.

    As much as I have enjoyed the SotA lore and bits... there are times it feels like a Frankenstein monster creation between Ultima and generic Hickman tropes.

    Even the wholes "Elves created from human experimentation" bit is something Hickman has done before.

    And you know I don't have anything per se against generic Fantasy tropes per se... but I was hoping for something different from Richard Garriott, especially after he lambasted UO for bringing elves and things like that a couple years ago a way of saying "Look at how they ruined Ultima after I left, my Ultimate RPG is gonna be different and true to what made Ultima what it was". Irony bitting much ?

    I don't have anything about other races and the likes - but why not simply CREATING races like Ultima did with the Gargoyles, or the Emps rather than reusing generic fantasy tropes ?

    And the wholes "Yeah but they're not really elves or Kobold or whatever but are just using the name because they look similar" feels like a poor justification to me. Basically : I wanted original races and creatures like Ultima did it when it was as it bests. So far it feels all we're having is generic Fantasy tropes.

    And I can't help feeling this might be Hickman's influence on the game and lore considering what Garriott was saying just a couple years ago.

    -Sergorn
     
  7. smack

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    Richard's response as to why elves in the "Sooo...elves." thread.
     
  8. Karrolanth

    Karrolanth Avatar

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    Interesting, but it doesn't help to explain how 'player elves' will be able to fit into the established lore - just why he's using the name.
     
  9. redfish

    redfish Avatar

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    I haven't read Hickman's books. My first thought on all of these magically created races was Ultima lore though,

    Orc
    "These creatures of evil are the result of long ago mutations wrong by magic. As they were created by magic, so can a wizard's spell dispell them from this plane."
    http://ultima.wikia.com/wiki/Orcs

    Headless
    "The product of a wizard's failed experiments, these wretched creatures somehow manage to sense the location of their quarry and strike with unnatural accuracy. Do not fall prey to pity, for the headless would as soon strangle you with his bare hands as accept your mercy."
    http://ultima.wikia.com/wiki/Headless
     
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  10. Duke Gréagóir

    Duke Gréagóir Legend of the Hearth

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    That makes sense to me. As far as I am concerned, case closed.
     
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  11. Ravicus Domdred

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    Get In MY BELLY!
    So before the Avatar comes to Novia, do the Elves have racial enemies? If so it would be nice to have an option to play this race. In my opinion many people do love Elves, but just as many people do not.
     
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  12. selbie

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    As RG has hinted at, there is clearly a whole bunch of lore that we don't know enough about that will explain the reasons for this feature.
    I just can't wait to find out what that is :D
     
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  13. Doppelganger [MGT]

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    I was thinking more along the lines of Samurai ManBearPigs.

    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Karrolanth

    Karrolanth Avatar

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    Well... he said -

    "We have specific story NEEDS for a race we use the term "elf" to describe"

    - which to me doesn't hint at any reason for 'player elves' to fit into the lore. Although I'm curious to learn more about the lore and backstory in general, in the context of the issue this particular thread is addressing that's what I'd really like to know right now! Dammit Richard, don't make me stamp my foot and pout! ;)

    As far as I can tell right now, the reasons for including the feature of elves as a playable race was simply that people saw that a race known as 'elves' was going to be in the game, and immediately demanded to be allowed to play as one.... :p

    (Edit: Perhaps there is more information on the subject in that thread Richard's quote is from, but I can't read it. So I'm still preparing to stamp my foot. ;) )
     
  15. BillRoy

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    Maybe we should be allowed to play the Bobbit race, an origional and compleatley unique race, different than any other race ever envisioned by anyone ever in the past.:D
     
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  16. Kambrius

    Kambrius Avatar

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    It would make sense if (as I've mentioned in other threads) the player character was transformed into an 'elf' as a means of integrating into the 'elven' community in order to better understand their plight and see the good, bad, and grey of it all (including any affinity bonuses) as part of a questline. If a character then chooses to remain an elf, then they should stay that way and receive quests appropriate to that decision. If a player chooses to become human again, fine. Will this create factionalism? Perhaps. Is it an incentive for pushing players into PVP? I'd very much hope so, but to have such a decision to be made at character creation seems wrong as others have said. Now if it's technically unfeasible to cause a character to go from human to elf and vice versa, that's another thing altogether and a technical limitation that would justify choosing to be an elf at character creation, but as per design, it would be plain lazy to choose at character creation, and it opens up the problem with multiple character slots and the weak explanation of shared rep and lineage.
     
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  17. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

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    [​IMG]
    Death-Knell said;


    BillRoy said:
    Racism,segrigation, and oppression, it is possible, friend.​

    and if you only see the worst in the world that's what you'll get. Plus this is a fantasy world.​
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ~TL~
    Wow BillRoy & Death-Knell, you hit that nail square on it's head ;)!
    Those aren't just great ideas, "Those are Stretch Goals" !:)!
    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
  18. selbie

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    Perhaps the lore we don't have yet specifically calls for player avatars that are elves.

    From the looks of the stretch goal funding, we aren't going to see playable elves any time soon :p
     
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  19. DyNaMiX

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    We shouldn't joke about that. Remember that joke/Easter Egg is how it all started...
     
  20. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

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    "The Answers That You Seek, Lay in My Companion's Eyes" ;)

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
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