Open PvP Justice System

You are quite correct, I am quite ignorant when it comes to PvP. Which, mind you, is why I was asking questions so that I can understand. But then again the fault is not necessarily all mine either, you were speaking in the OT about griefing and PvE players and economy not role playing as you have seen fit to address supplementarily in your follow post just recently. If you have that view I suggest that you edit your OT to be inclusive of it.

The questions I've asked were simply based off what I understand about PvP currently thus I was attempting to frame the conversation into something reflective of how things are in this point in time in Shroud of the Avatar. I have not expressed a view point. I did say "I believe that should" and I suppose this is my great mistake as it is not my personal opinion. Really what I meant to be saying was this; I believe the game is providing a karma system for interaction between "good" and "bad" however the Devs or story wishes to define those things.

Just to be clear again, I'm not expressing a personal view. I was simply trying to ask a few questions to clarify your thoughts from the OT so that maybe I could then tell you how I felt about it. But I can see now, even if I had one which I haven't yet decided, you wouldn't really be interested in reading it.

Good day to you sir.

 

And I doubt I would even play in this environment.
Maybe mine or craft but not much else.
Why attack other players if you know your going to be killed?
In a PK environment you can specialize on ways to get away and get your friends that do like PVP to come and fight.
If there were traps or things like that it would make it even more fun to slow down PK's before they get to you.
I like to be part of the multiplayer world somehow even if I can't PVP.
Thieves, Looters, Trackers, Trapping and things like these give the players something to do that are not good at PVP.
Just learning the fastest way out of certain areas or where the nearest healer is give the runner and advantage at times.
Just because I will join PVP does not mean I want to fight.
I have more fun trying to get away.

 

Not a great solution because it ends up with us not seeing what's being said in a forum. I don't like the ignore button.

 

I still do not accept the argument that states "if you don't like, you can go play SPO or FPO. You don't even have to opt into PVP!" This logic is so flawed, it's kind of sad. It's the bad actors who should have their play restricted, not the good.

While many may be interested in PVP, not all of those interested are willing to put up with others poor behavior in game. They may be there to play with other and engage in fun and challenging combat against their peers. All I'm seeing here are arguments to allow the most base type of PVP play with literally no consequence, because let's face it players are too lazy or time starved to focus on policing their fellow players .


It's never going to work and I personally consider this whole idea a thinly veiled attempt to make the world a FFA with no rules at all.


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Some people might argue for a Free For All PvP with no rules, but I think the game will have some rules. There really would be no way to have any guildwars or control point battles if your friend can turn into an enemy on a moment's notice without consequences.

The other extreem is much much worse than free for all... the other extreem is that we are all flagged for Open PvP, but we can only attack certain predefined enemies, or factions. This would eliminate the need for a murder system, but it removes a lot of things such as fun, and freedom... This would be miserable. I'm not a PK, but I really like the versatility of the PK, and I enjoy the element that they bring to the game.

So we need something that is similar to the free for all PvP, (meaning all PvP flagged players can attack all PvP flagged Players), but we need a murder/criminal system, to encourage proper relationships so people think twice before attacking their allies and innocent miners etc.

 

If a criminal system is too lenient it will have no effect and it will drive players off. If it is properly and realistically harsh (perma-death penalty for murderers, chopping off hands of thieves, etc.) then it will drive players off.

There is absolutely no good solution that allows open world PVP that is acceptable to all. Most won't compromise and those that do only offer things that are truly only weak attempts at passing a wilted olive branch.

I say the current system as proposed is better than anything we have offered up and it should stand for the time being; at least until it has been PROVEN to be bad.


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There is no current proposed justice system. lol They said we will have open pvp, and that there would be looting of one item with a mandatory ransom option to protect the looted person.

However nothing has been mentioned about a murder/criminal system.

Also the devs never mentioned anything about some kind of justice system (which I would interpret as being different than a murder/criminal system).

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I don't think the murder system should be enforced by players!!! I say the "justice system" needs to be enforced by PvP players who are anti-pks (not necessarily deputized, but just bounty hunters etc). That way everybody is on the same playing field. That would also promote freedom of play style, and a fair shot for PKs to avoid justice.

A basic murder system just flags people as criminals and murderers, and probably has a bounty for murders. However a justice system can be dangerous if it is run by NPCs. I don't think having armed NPC guards running around hunting PKs is a good idea. Nor is prison a good idea if it ruins the fun of people who are just playing by the rules of the game. Prisons would be an interesting concept if it was related to some kind of questline only PKs could do and it adds titles, and tattoos for the PK or something. However if they are trapped in a jail cell for an hour, that is not fun for the PK.

 

Although you cant deny a person a house if they paid real money for it! that wouldnt be cool at all. let them have houses to run to, lets us be able to attack thier houses to a certain extent or just let them have a base to run to like in tag eventually they will have to come out (evil grin)

 

I like the idea of allowing your house to be flagged for PvP siege damage. As long as it is structural and doesn't blowup the actual items you placed in your house, but say if you allow your house to be siegable then enough damage to the exterior from spells or siege weapons then opponents can break into the house and kill you inside your own house!!!

Great point. Say you have a castle lot for a guildhouse then they really can siege the castle. There could be benifits to having a siege building too. It provides protection, and also might allow for titles for defending the building. Even if it's just a knight's house. Lot's of possiblities there.

Just no stealing of items in the house. And let the house get fixed up after a time.

 

I was not speaking in question to your knowelge on PvP, I was speaking to your loaded question that PvP'ers are basically like "thief among thieves, a murder among murderers". Which would imply that they are only there to battle or kill eachother. That is where I dispute your qoute. Many, like myself, just dont want to resrtic anyone from playing a role. So Open PvP is what we want to see... and you get griefers if there is no justice system built into the software.

As for your asertion that you were working basing it on what PvP is as you understand it currently; your posts in the PvP section date back to March 2013. So I am suprised to hear you say you are "quite ignorant when it comes to PvP". My aplogies as I didnt know you are still in a 12 month+ learning phase on PvP.

Obviously I had read it as a personal view cause a question like "What is a thief among thieves, a murder among murderers?" would be considered a 'loaded question'. Considering logical fallacies are a part of forum rules, one needs to be careful. They tend to come off as a view point.

I think a 'karma' style system would be good, but for Open PvP'ers... we need a justice system on top of that. Open PvP'ers dont want to be griefed either. If I'm getting attacked... I want it to be because somone is actually ROLE playing a murderer. Not cause they just saw an opertunity and know there will be little repercussions. They should be living that murderer on the run from death by the authorities role.

Karma system is good, but cant do it alone. Thats what I mean by a justice system.

 

Ehm, kick that person out of the guild.
That solves that.

 

What if it's an ally guild?

What's important to me isn't the thought of kicking the person out of the guild, but such an act would better be handled by a murder count. Let other people go after this scumbag too. Just kicking them out of a guild isn't enough. However not having the ability to attack an innocent is much worse. .

So we need a murder/criminal system, and the ability to attack anybody in PvP.

 

Man, talk about laying a smack down! You should read Captain Jack's posts, good stuff, if you read even half of the posts that Time Lord does, you should educate youself on SotA in no time.

In any case. I tend to agree with our friend on Acid. If we are actually allowed open PvP in any definition of the term what so ever, I don't want some sort of justice system. That just makes the definition of Open PvP null all together! Let me give you an example.

Captain Jack "Yayyy, open PvP!" *sinks every ship in Britanny harbour*
Rear Admiral Useless "Halt! You there, to jail you go for sinking ships."

Why on earth would I want that as open PvP, I don't role play? THAT is my personal opinion. Now it is time for you to be clear for once in YOUR posting history TeamWeb. Explain how you think Open PvP can be, open, when you have a meaningless justice system in place to prevent certain things?

 

Man, talk about laying a smack down! You should read Captain Jack's posts, good stuff, if you read even half of the posts that Time Lord does, you should educate youself on SotA in no time.

In any case. I tend to agree with our friend on Acid. If we are actually allowed open PvP in any definition of the term what so ever, I don't want some sort of justice system. That just makes the definition of Open PvP null all together! Let me give you an example.

Captain Jack "Yayyy, open PvP!" *sinks every ship in Britanny harbour*
Rear Admiral Useless "Halt! You there, to jail you go for sinking ships."

Why on earth would I want that as open PvP, I don't role play? THAT is my personal opinion. Now it is time for you to be clear for once in YOUR posting history TeamWeb. Explain how you think Open PvP can be, open, when you have a meaningless justice system in place to prevent certain things?

 

Should have used Commodore Norrington.... lol

 

The exact REASON people fear Open PvP in an RPG is cause people think its a "free-for-all".

I disagree with you completely... Open PvP mode shouldnt mean "haha, we can play out of character with no consiquences." It should mean... "I want to play in character as a murderer which means I expect consiquences and hte challenges it brings.

Personally; if you want a free for all... there are plenty of non-RP games out there. I just dont think it has a place here.

So again... said in a different way... Open PvP to me means I can attack anyone I want just like in the real world and just like in the real world, there are consequences for that role. I still want role play. I hope that makes it clear.

 

there are also alot of quest line games out there without pvp, and full of crafting! just saying it goes both ways! why cant we all have what we want? It seems to be designed that way, all parties will be dissapointed in one way or another but lets just play the game our way both PVP and PVE, if you dont like the PVP set up, which we dont quite know for sure yet, just dont flag it is and they have been telling us the way things are going to be! We all dumped huge amounts of money in it! PVP and PVE alike.
Keep making suggestions and you may be surprised! jumping and swimming and running were all added because of all the suggestions! Honestly i dont want you to have to do anything you dont want to PVP/PVE, and as a PVPr myself have the same respect for all!

 

Right, that is probably where everyone is having an issue. Open PvP to most here on this forum think of it as an unrestricted murder-fest in game. You'd expect a karma system to deal with certain aspects of that, restricting you from doing things like entering cities of good and other than that nothing.

You wan't find many PvPers here who would subscribe to limits greater than that with Open PvP, anything on top of that simple karma system would have our undies in a right tight bunch.

Captain Jack thinks if you wish to Open PvP without restriction, you should slide that slider all the way to Man setting. If you wish to PvP with restrictions, you join a guild, have your guildy type battles and such then RP your "justice system" yourselves. That would be the best way to handle that, hand it over to you true role players that way you can RP your "Open" PvP between each other with the slider set just under Man. You wouldn't have to deal with us real open PvPers at all, and you'd still be able to eat your cake too!

 

Your looking for a free-for-all. I'm just saying, when you place Open PvP in the cage of a role play game... the role you sound like you want to play is murder/thief/pirate. and in the scope of that role... you would expect the game to hunt you.

Your description removes the "Role" out of Role Play. It's still a role play game to me, and I expect people to be playing a role and not doing things out of character. How can someone that wants to actually role play a murderer play that role if they are not getting hunted, as they would expect. Open PvP in the context of a RPG, shouldn't mean free-for-all.

Doesn't Captain Jack Sparrow want to fight and evade the kings fleet like the Captain Jack Sparrow we know and love? Doesnt he want to battle missionaries hired by the local ports to kill him? Get into the role man!

 

He is playing the role of a pirate! Yes he will be hunted, maybe by me? I think that Cpt.jacksparrow is role playing already! Every forum he has posted on he has been roll playing! So far from what ive read he really wants an open PVP, that you will not have to play if you dont want! Isnt that the greatest thing about how SoTA has the mechanincs of PVP and PVE set up? Don't stomp on one persons roll play because its not yours! Before you even started posting i told Jack over and over i would hunt him, so hes adding to my rollplay as well! A PK hunter! My roll play! If i hear of you attacking an innocent trust me i will hunt you down! thats the way i roll...play!