Is it me, or is it pay to win

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Bornhald, Jun 26, 2014.

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  1. PrimeRib

    PrimeRib Avatar

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    The most important thing to me is that people log in every day hungry. If someone isn't hungry, they're not pushing the economy. They're not going to make PvP happen (even indirectly). I want people motivated to make good stuff happen, and be responsible to care enough about the downside of reputation and loss.

    If a person or group of people become self sufficient and don't want anything that anyone else has, they're essentially removed from the game. And they tend to pull others out too.
     
  2. High Baron Asguard

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    Wow, really? pong is the only microtransaction free gme is it? wheres the microtransations in the Last of us? Tomb Raider? Skyrim? Hell even Diablo 3, certainly Starcraft and Diablo 2. I am less sure but I don't BELIEVE there are even microtransactions in any of the COD games either.

    Edit how could I forget, Ultima 1, Ultima 2, Ultima 3, Ultima 4, Ultima 5, Ultima 6, Ultima 7, Serpent Isle, Ultima 8, Ultima 9, Savage coast, Martian Dreams, Ultima underworld 1 and ultima underworld 2
     
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  3. Dame Lori

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    Better prepared - No, but maybe I'm not sure what you mean by "prepared." Prepared for what?

    A game advantage - this depends on what "game" you are talking about. The game deals no points for "good house location." Most of what we are talking about here is all in the minds of the players, player-created competitiveness, bragging rights, etc. outside of the game itself. Which means it is all very subjective. Having a house at all doesn't seem to offer much of an "advantage" in the game. It's sort of a mini-game, if you enjoy decorating. We already know there will be bank storage. There will be public crafting stations and public gardens. A house is fun to decorate, offers some convenience. Players get a sense of pride from decorating their houses, a reason they are popular.

    Now, if you are concerned about what other players are doing, what they think of you, and if you feel that you can not enjoy the game unless you have a better house or are making more money than that guy in central Brittany, then placing a house before others may give you an "advantage" in the "better-than-them" game you want to take part in. The advantage in that case, is time. It will take time to earn the gold needed. Houses will still be available and central plots will become available as people move or quit.

    Please keep in mind that the person that puts in 20 hours a week will have more "advantage" than those that can only put in 1. Like money, time is often something you have, or you do not have. The game will not be on equal footing from the moment it goes live because of this. It is the nature of things.

    While it is fair to go ahead and play the game in whatever way you enjoy, I think anyone who goes in with negative emotions unless they are seen as "better" than the next guy (whatever they are using to gauge "better") is going to be very frustrated because there will always, always be those that are better and have more opportunities.

    I also think that it does the game a disservice to boil it down to where the journey through the game, building skills, crafting, adventuring, earning money, is not worthwhile in itself. Like I said earlier, if playing the game is considered being at a disadvantage, then there is a problem with the gameplay.

    That all being said... My concern in this debate is with a blanket label of "pay to win" rather than the specific advantages-or-lack-thereof of early house placement or a sickle that doesn't break. I don't think the current offerings come close to earning a P2W label for the game as a whole, at all. I think nickel and diming is just a wrong use of the term and there is none of that going on here.
     
  4. tekkamansoul

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    There are microtransactions in almost ALL of these, yes, including Cod. This wasn't a troll post was it?
    Whether or not these microtransactions are P2W is the debate. They Do exist in the games you mentioned (outfits, skins, mini campaigns, unique weapons and more).
     
  5. algumacoisaqq

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    Ok, I'll agree that the game is pay to win ( winning is in the heart of the beholder they say), since people who pay will have an advantage. They will have, can we denny this?
    BUT, that does not mean the gane is going to be bad, I know I'm never going to own a castle and I'm ok wirh it. I don't have the real money or the time to grind for it (if it was possible), but what I want is to be part of a community with a nice economy working out. Or be part of a city with a castle...

    Also, I think the plan is to make everything tradable in-game, so even if you can't buy the prosperity stuff, you can trade for it from someone who has it for in-game gold or something. I believe this is true for everything in the game.

    What I don't understand is why Star citizen is considered ok but sota isn't... Really, even if you can get the ship in-game, do you think you will have it. I think that is just a carrot in the stick, at some (...)
    Ops, have to go right now, see ya
     
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  6. High Baron O`Sullivan

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    is everything.

    Just a friendly heads up.....

    -via FireLotus-
    Speak with Virtue:
    I talked a bit about the cussing earlier, but to restate, this rule is also being broken if you link to inappropriate content, images, or videos hosted on another website. And I must point out that cuss words are not the only language that will not be tolerated. Calling people, (even the Dev Team) liars, cheats, stupid, incompetent, etc is considered a personal attack of character and is never appropriate.
     
  7. Kabalyero Kidd

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    not sure if there is a word for this but having this feeling of discontent or covetousness with regard to another's advantages, success, possessions whether in-game or in-real is not really healthy at all... I hope we can just be happy, appreciative and enjoy the game when it comes out... ^_^
     
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  8. High Baron Asguard

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    There are expansion packs, there aren't microtransactions, there is a HUGE difference. Its so sad to see people supporting things which will hurt a game in the long term as a sort of corporate worship. They are game devs, there not gods. Just because they chose to screw you doesn't mean you should say thank you and that goes for EA, Square Enix OR Portalarium. Its sickening to see customers turned from the actually focus of a company, into stooges who will lap up any bull that a company will push upon them and then go out and DEFEND said bull.



     
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  9. Avatar Aiden

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    What? Which kid got a million? Where is he on this forum? Show me this person and then show me his advantage.

    And why is it "unfair" that he got said million from his dad?

    So what is "fair?" This isn't about SotA is it?

    And who is this "some" that don't like the crowd sourcing model? Seriously? Who? Show me. Where are they?
    EVERYONE who pledges knows the risks. And even then it is risk free because you can sell your account and get your money back.

    You really need to evaluate just what the heck you are doing here. You say you are a royal founder? Why? It sounds pretty clear that pledging goes against everything you believe in. Sell your account and get your money back. Actually, you will make a profit. That is MORE THAN FAIR. And you know what? I won't begrudge you that profit. Not one dollar of it.

    You made a choice to be a founder. Of this game AND Star Citizen. And then you have the audacity to come in here and crap all over the good people who have sacrificed more than you to help this game come into being?

    Leave us. Go and sell your account and wait until next year for when the game comes out retail and come in with all of the ground floor retail buyers. You will have a level playing field with thousands upon thousands of other folks.
     
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  10. Ristra

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    I am still waiting for someone to tell me where the 100% better than any other spot best in the game location is hiding so I can up my pledge and get that spot. Oh and the worst so I know where to avoid.
     
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  11. Wagram

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    Kickstarter says you get the full 1st episode for the pledge as the game is still in development everything they add to the game become's part of episode 1, so everyone that as pledged for that should get the FULL game
    and anyone buying on release should get it. RG said it's a buy to play game.

    The shop is actually allowing some to buy things that the kickstarter funds have developed for the game yet the backers that made it possible are not getting them.
     
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  12. Wagram

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    You must think all unemployed can afford to own a computer and pay for internet access, maybe the TV make it seem so with a few but they are a few.
    Even people on low pay struggle to do that.
    I know in the UK they get benefits which is a valid argument but it's supposed to be Global the US don't support them they forget them.
     
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  13. E n v y

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    No one will know those spots until months into the game....and then depending on what happens those spots can change.
     
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  14. Hardy

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    It's the city plot with high walls, guard patrol and no immediate neighbours. That way, when you make your serfs fight each other for food in your basement arena, there is no nosey neighbours to notice the commotion and call the RSPCS.*

    (*Royal Society of Prevention of Cruelty to Serfs)

    Serf: "You can't like, OWN property man"
    Baron Farnsworth: "I can, but that's because I am not a penniless hippie"
     
  15. E n v y

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    I did say "extreme".....

    However thanks for making the additional point that backs up the entire argument over self sacrifice and making a choice. By saying the poor and low paid couldn't afford computers/Internet implies the rest can.....in fact I'm sure the rest enjoy their cigarettes, alcohol, takeaways etc etc........a small minority of these people also seem to enjoy watching others part with money to support a project and then complain because they feel at a disadvantage because they chose not not.
     
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  16. Wagram

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    A lot of those claiming the game is so good seem to be on here and not indulging themselves in R7 and enjoying the new instances they have to explore.
     
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  17. Lord Tachys al`Fahn

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    aaand this has gone happily skipping down the tortuously twisting, jagged, rocky trail that so many others have so gleefully followed. See? *points to a body impaled on a horizontal outcropping of some wickedly sharp (and purposely sharpened) flint spikes, that just happen to be on the other side of a blind, sharp turn* That's the last poor individual (thread) that followed this path! I'm sure that left a bruise!

    Do the pledges give benefits? Yes. As has been stated prior, without said benefits sweetening the deal, some might have pledged on the name of our dear friend Lord British himself, but mayhap not nearly enough for not nearly enough to successfully fund the kickstarter.

    Are there items in the store that give a bonus (or the more nebulously termed "effect"), and can't be acquired in game? Yes. Some of these we know (Prosperity) and some we don't (cloaks, severed stony heads, etc.).

    Are these things items that other players won't be able to acquire? Some yes, some no. The overwhelming majority of the items in the add on store are implied to be available after launch, at which time the prices will change by amounts up to 100% of their current cost.

    Are these additional items necessary to play or enjoy the game? No.

    Is your pledge an investment? Yes and no. You shouldn't expect any compensation at all other than (as I have previously stated) the knowledge you helped make this game possible. That in and of itself does, however, make your money an investment, as you are expecting a return on your money, be it $10 or $10,000: THIS GAME.

    This will go round and round, as it has in the past, and all it will accomplish is all that it has already accomplished: anger, resentment, annoyance, etc...

    If you agree with the model... I understand (I won't assume to speak for anyone more than myself).

    If you don't... I likewise understand.

    I have heard this before, though, in so many different ways it isn't funny. "Discussing" it isn't going to change either of the previous viewpoints, and most likely will only serve to bring discredit upon the whole project.

    Can't we just disagree, and look for ways we can earn our status with more than money, ways to improve the game for those that come after us, instead of arguing about things that don't even exist yet???
     
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  18. E n v y

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    I was in earlier as well as yesterday and the day before......2am here.....I have work in 5 hours that will enable me to spend $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ in the addon store. Do you even have an account or did you sell it (I'm sure you said somewhere you sold it)
     
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  19. Lord Tachys al`Fahn

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    Didn't see anything in there that says you get EVERYTHING IN Episode 1.... merely the ability to download the game client.
     
  20. High Baron Asguard

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    Do me a favor, go to a game publisher (ANY game publisher) and tell the you want them to give you 10,000 for no other reason than to make "a good game" and see what response you get
     
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