Is it me, or is it pay to win

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Bornhald, Jun 26, 2014.

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  1. Cabrens

    Cabrens Avatar

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    I might be wrong but i do think that current Portalarium business plan got inspired by Second Life business model, which makes sense on a purely money making level, since this virtual platform generates millions of revenues every year and also made a few individuals millionaires in real cash thu virtual real estate market transactions. This might be the reason why they spend so much time on housing while leaving the pvp clientele unsatisfied, why those who pledged on higher level regard their funding as an "investment" and why we now see second life real estate companies buying out accounts in the second hand market here.

    For those unaware of the phenomenon, here is an article about the second life real estate market : http://realestate.msn.com/article.aspx?cp-documentid=13107800

    The limitation is that since SotA is a fantasy world, it s unlikely that IRL companies get any desire to get an official representation in this world. Virtual assets (which includes financial assets) represent 50 times the volume of IRL economy, even the dollar is now a computer produced unit, which could be called Fedbit, produced in such massive quantities that asset owners dont know where to invest their flooding liquidities any more, so why not joining the virtual bubbles fests...while it lasts...Because nature abhors a vacuum (horror vacui) and these virtual orgies will obviously end with an after hours depressing headache : generalised deflation.
     
  2. Sirinan

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    Personally, I was under the impression that what they asked for (and got) on kickstarter was all that they needed to make the game that they described.
     
  3. High Baron O`Sullivan

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    is everything.

    That would be incorrect good sir.
     
  4. Sir Frank

    Sir Frank Master of the Mint

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    Kickstarter was really just a method to gauge public interest. The money is mostly unrelated.
     
  5. Hardy

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    My favourite part was when someone gave the example of Tomb Raider and COD as examples of a clean in game economy. Ie, games with no in game economy. Wasn't tomb raider even single player?
     
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  6. Maus Merryjest

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    Dear heavens. Eighteen pages of a debacle.

    I am honestly completely puzzled as to how "Pay To Win" even enters this conversation.

    Pay To Win as a term is reserved exclusively for games that withhold crucial pieces of content that are necessary for advancement and completion, and which are not available for acquisition through the in-game mechanics.

    So, let me put this in context here:

    If Portalarium were selling, oh, I don't know, The Freaking Blacksword on their store:

    [​IMG]
    Then yes. That'd be pretty pay-to-win.

    But a few items of prosperity and a pretty little house are not necessary to 'win' the game. There are no siege mechanics, there are no fortifications. Your house, long story short, is useless as far as the game is concerned. Sure, it's a convenient place to put all your crafting stations... but that's not a game breaker.
     
  7. majoria70

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    Well I don't think I we have any way to know what's a good placement for our homes. I agree with Dame Lori enjoy the challenges have fun with it, so serious. It will be fun to find our favorite venders. And on topic of course this isn't pay to win it's fundraising. There is no unfair advantage. So many who start the game won't even know about all the discussions and battles, they will just dig in and hopefully have a great time. Create your own advatages in however that looks for you. I just don't see it. It will all work out. Its just hard to picture certain things at this stage. There'll be guilds and groups who'll help in amazing ways. ****cheers****
     
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  8. Kabalyero Kidd

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    House owners will have a special summon spell where they'll be able to summon a golem like version of their house to aid them in combat... the bigger the house, the bigger it's golem-version will be... hehehehe
     
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  9. Maus Merryjest

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    Hahaha, that would be rather funny, if only the houses moved about on little chicken legs:

    [​IMG]

    Call it the Baba Yaga perk! Only one spell, "House of Brown, Sit Down!" and wham! Insta-squash enemy!
     
  10. Joviex

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    not sure I follow. that problem would exist no matter what, including, not giving out land grab chances in advance.

    it is simply first come, first serve.

    how else would you resolve multiple consumer interest in a single item, because I am sure the entire real world economy would love to know? seriously.

    layaway perhaps? I don't have the cash or deed on me now, but will run back and get it, and a timeout period to do so?
     
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  11. Nytetears

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    this is the main reason I gave up on the game. Sadly I am out $150 before I realized they would be gouging you for money at every turn. had I known this I would never have backed the project.
     
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  12. Lord Tachys al`Fahn

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    Pardon my ignorance, but where is the gouging?

    There is nothing here that you need in the store or in the pledges that you need to play the game, or would put you at a significant disadvantage vs other players (other than the tax free stuff), and so there is no coercion to buy items, and thus no gouging.

    If anything, an argument to the contrary could be made, as I had pledged as high as I had initially primarily for physical items, but also because the lowest level you could attain the town lot without buying it specifically was the Lord pledge level.

    Then they re-structured the pledges... and now you can get a house for half what I initially pledged (Citizen), and a town lot for $300 less than what my upgraded pledge costs (Lord). For me, placement wasn't an issue... so the place where "gouging" might exist (Lord Marshall, an additional $700 above my current level), doesn't, at least not for me.

    So, in short, lowering the bar to entry into the landed does not equal gouging, and items that aren't ever needed to actually succeed at or enjoy the game likewise do not meet the definition, so where does the gouging come in to play?
     
  13. Beaumaris

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    Hard to say it is pay to win.

    I paid and I don't feel like I have won yet.
     
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  14. Duke William of Serenite

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    This is a player funded game . Some people here have spent 12000.00 and you want them to pay for rent? Seriously ? Owning a house gives me no advantage over you. It's just a house in Pvp and pve we are equal. Owning a house adds no in game bonuses other than somewhere pretty to hang paintings. Pay to win what??? Please elaborate? What do you need a house for? How does a house make anyone win?
     
  15. Trenyc

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    With that kind of attitude, you can have fun playing multiplayer with just the people who have donated enough to get a house. Hope that game stays fun when they all quit because they've completed the main story and have nothing left to achieve in the game.
     
  16. E n v y

    E n v y Avatar

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    After a house comes a hex....after a hex comes the fun of filling it....after filling it comes the fun if running it as a community.......

    There is no end game, there is no ultimate win.
     
  17. Seneth

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    So by not giving every player a house, nobody without one will play because it's soooo not fair. However, if everyone has a house, everyone will quit because once you have a house you literally have nothing left to achieve in the game. Really? Even besides the huge unsupported assumptions about the goals offered by the game and the motivations of those who will play it, isn't that a great big contradiction? By your thinking it would seem that those who use real money for their house are cheating themselves out of the game and will soon quit anyway out of boredom, while those who didn't use RMT get to have all the fun.
     
  18. Trenyc

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    Regardless, I'm confident arguing that people like to feel that the rules of the game are fair throughout.
    It's a two way street. Part of the enjoyment I get from playing MMOs is the feeling of achievement when I earn something in the game that is generally hard for players to earn. For me, that effort usually revolves around crafting, and there can be no question whatsoever that an established storefront from the very beginning of the game counts as a serious advantage for merchant type characters. If I do earn enough to buy a house, good on me! I'll be at par after maybe who knows how many hours of game time. Except not really. Backers will also have stations. And indestructible tools. And tax free status. And a free vendor.

    If the people who chose not to pledge feel like they're so far behind that whatever achievements they make in the game might at best put them even with people who pledged, they won't feel any sense of achievement when they hit those milestones. If people refuse to play or quit because of even just this, it'll hurt population significantly. But when you pile this up on the other sentiments listed in this thread, it inclines me to wonder if anyone besides high level backers will really be happy enough with this game for the short term that they choose to stay with it for the long term.
     
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  19. Lord Lew

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    This all day, twice on Sunday and well, every other day of the week!
     
  20. blaquerogue

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    Ill add to this if we complete a stretch goal, even if you didn't partake in funding it you will still be able to purchase it with in game gold! Just saying, you get stuff that others paid for! Which you did not. if you spend 275.00 (Ancestors pledge) you will get a plot and a house, and everything from the other pledges below that, you've already gotten way more stuff than what you actually paid for! So that would be a win to you and you could make payments on it if you wished instead of dropping the full 225.00 at once! (just something to think about) If it wasn't for the kick start backers and pledgers we would not have a game period. So yes those people deserve some royalty for making it happen! We will just start out with that and others will have to work for it, that didn't pledge or back it. (its basically door prizes, for funding this game, but does not make you 'Win".) Some of the stretch will not be met, so where you didn't throw away money we did! (there is no refund) keep that in mind too.
     
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