What is the state of the thief in SotA? 7/20/14

Eh, I'm optimistic about a summer release. ^_^

 

Generally Beta means feature complete, i.e., the game is "done" feature wise and it's only bugs and improvements and security stuff to be done at that point.

Alpha is the state prior to Beta.

Other than that, they're just labels. Different places have different ideas about the length of time, what release are called, it's just a name...

For example you could easily call these "pre-alphas", "alphas" as well if you wanted to.

What we are more interested in is getting some idea of when we think the game will be "released".

It seems to range from December to Summer 2015... But everything I've seen in interviews seems to indicate they don't want to delay the game until the summer.

Of course they will if they have to, but not committing to any "release date" gives them some flexibility I'm sure.

I will consider the game late after October 31, 2014 because that's when the kickstarter set the delivery date, but I won't care - Better do it right than on time.

 

Absolutely!

 

So back on topic now? if stealing is out until later, then what would the role of the player who takes on rogue-like skills in single player be?

Could a person go through the entire game as a rogue, finding secret doors, outwitting their opponents, and use their stealth skills to accomplish tasks that no other type of avatar could possibly do?

If a character levels up in all the rogue skills, should they get combat experience points for "avoiding" and "sneaking past" dangerous attackers? The stealth skills that we've seen so far are innate light armor skills. Those are combat skills. Therefore, should a person who is highly skilled in stealth should be gaining experience points (within reason) by sneaking around potential combatants. Especially if those combatants are more perceptive than most, and have a higher difficulty. Maybe anybody can be stealth from a distance, but sneaking by some guards within a few feet from you by timing and guessing their marching habits to creep silently right behind them as they turn around, so you can get to where you need to go.

So even without a "stealing" skill there is plenty that a rogue can do in the game. What about disabling traps, or re-enabling traps too so that people cannot follow your steps so easily?

 

I guess we just have to wait really for a "rogue" template really. We do have the camouflage, stealth and moon magic. These attributes are primarily a Ranger skill set. Before I get ganked in the *there is no classes in sota* bandwagon. I am just suggesting traditional templates that we can all focus on. There are still a few things missing from the ranger template. Tracking, removing/detecting traps/hidden. I believe the ranger also used some magic also.

 

These go hand in hand. I believe if they build a ranger they are building a rogue skill tree as well. The only difference is the ranger would take on magic. Rogues could as well, but I think there are enough skills that even if they don't add a backstab (although I suspect they might) there will still be enough skills to choose to make a Rogue type character.

The use of a dagger and a freehand for a rogue mage, or a rapier and a dagger for a more swashbuckling type. The ability to sneak and disarm traps is the nice start to a rogue. Then when they get around to adding stealing and any other missing pieces of the rogue, we just take on the new skill trees.

Even if you're a ranger, with stealth, shouldn't the ranger gain experience points for successfully hiding in a combat situation? (within reason)

 

Yes, I believe any use of any skill should let you gain experience. Also, the classic bard even had some thieving skills at low levels I believe.

 

The classic assassin had some rogue skills too, but seemed to really enjoy blades, and poisons. It seems reasonable that there will be poision in the game in R1, but will it be limited to only monsters? There is a purify spell to cure poisions. If there is at least a sneak attack, with bladed weapons, then I think we will be in good shape for R1. If we can poision our weapons that would be nice as well.

So people don't over use the poision skill there should be some kind of limitation on the type of weapons that can be poisoned. like daggers and other short blades. Although I think any blade that is designed to slice or stab should be poisonable. A two handed sword doesn't make sense to be poisoned. I suppose somebody could poision a polarm, or arrows. The archer should be allowed to have poisoned arrows, but they should be specialty arrows (but it would be expensive). Each arrow should be poisoned individually not as a batch of arrows. Otherwise that would be a bit over powered.

 

To be fair there should be a mulitiplier for a backstab skill for items like there is a fizzle chance with mage skills. A backstab is a powerful advantage especially if you didn't notice the backstabing rogue because they poped out of hiding.

Does it make sense that somebody can backstab with a two-handed sword? I don't think so. So there should be some kind of negative modifier for such a weapon. Same with polarms. Poisons could work the same way. Then you don't have to just say you can't do it.

So murderers might opt to use a dagger or a short sword because they might have the best modifiers when it comes to backstabs and poison application. Longer weapons might not be so functional as a back stab tool. I'm sure you can backstab with a rapier, but I imagine a back stab as something that requires a person to sneak up on a person, grab somebody from behind with a choke hold and use a short weapon to strike the liver. A knife (and poison) to the liver should be a lethal combo.

How do you apply a choke (or cover the mouth) to keep people from hollering if you are trying to backstab with a longsword?

 

Also who says a backstab is everything that a sneak attack is capable of? What about coming up behind a person and slitting their throat? Can't do that with much longer than a short sword or a ninja to.

Tenchu had some of the most fun stealth kills of it's time. They used all the skills too. Stealth, disguise, and all sorts of types of attacks. Check it out:




EDIT: I changed the video because this one has better quality. And has the female character's stealth kills (which are more vicious than Rikimaru's)

 

Maybe create a new attack called "throat slit", which also could be a "silence" attack against casters.

 

Well perhaps we could allow a batch of arrows to be poisoned, but poisons of the same types cannot stack on a target.

 

Lol we must think some what alike.

 

I think the arrows should be poisioned one at a time. However they could automate that, but still use the resources needed for each arrow. They need to be expensive arrows otherwise all archers might use it. And if it lowers the karma of the person who uses it, then a virtuous archer would be at a disadvantage. Let poison arrows be expensive. There might even need to be a special application method for arrows so that they don't lose potentcy while being flung across the air at rapid speeds. Will need to be some kind of dried out resin.

 

It would be nice to have options. A throat attack might very well be useful. You don't have many opportunities in a combat to do a sneak attack on somebody one on one. So it's gotta count.

I can see mulitple sneak attacks if the opponent is busy with another person. Although if I were the person getting flanked by a rogue, I think I might start moving, or running more like it.

 

would be great as an initial attack on a solo target, or in a group battle and silence the heals.

 

Although a throat attack might in fact be something somebody could try in the middle of combat too. ALthough I think it might be more difficult to pull off than using it as a sneak attack.

However if we have multiple sneak-able attacks, then maybe flanking a person is what makes it a sneak attack, or maybe sneak attack could be some kind of innate skill for subterfuge??? Then then many skills could be used for a sneak attack, instead of having one glyph called sneak attack.

OR I guess there could be a glyph called sneak attack, but have the option to combo that glyph with throat slit. The double attack in blades could also be a sneak attack, slice from behind the knee, and a stab to the stomach as they are falling to the ground (resulting in a big damage, trip).

 

I like the ability to silence. It opens up the possibility to have different types of sneak attacks other than just having extra damage being the only factor. Silence, a stun or trip, or maybe even some kind of eye attack to blur the vision of an opponent.

Although I keep thinking of certain pets that might allert a person to somebody being stealth near by. Hopefully those pets aren't 100%. Maybe poisoned meat could be used to lure a pet, or noncombat pet that can detect rogues and render them useless. Although somebody seeing meat thrown around might let on that a rogue is around. Although rogues need to be able to expect that people will use watch dogs. Perhaps there could be NPC watch dogs to patrol an area not only NPC guards.

Poisoned meet or rice would be good to use against such a guard. That would add some stratigy to being a rogue. Don't carry too much stuff or you will be encumbered, but you might need a rope, a grapling hook, some poisoned food, maybe some caltrops. A rogue would then be a truly skill based character.

 

ya some kind of distract would be nice, if the person does not know that his pet is distracted, maybe some kind of "sap" for a pet, or a "calm" pet.

 

Yeah the personal pet needs to be managed some how. Although when they get to having siegeable towns or structures, maybe having a guard dog NPC that patrols an area might be just as good as having actual NPC guards... if that is even an option in one of those places.