Is crime filtered out of the world if you opt out of PvP???

Discussion in 'PvP Gameplay' started by Robby, Aug 11, 2014.

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  1. Robby

    Robby Avatar

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    So this is something i'd like to ask those who will completely opt out of all PvP and who will not play a game where I can swipe an item out of your backpack and run.(though im assuming 99% of you will once in awhile agree to duel someone in a no-loot deathmatch).
    Will I be completely out of your game? Like... if im murdering wandering healers, attacking NPC towns, looting stuff from the blacksmith shop you will never see this.
    Now I know ive been getting some reaction for all the UO references but there so darned useful!
    Lets go to UO during the early trammel and felucca era. Like 2000-2002. Thats when I first played UO. PvP was strictly in felucca (y'know they could have at least made buccaneers den full loot pvp in both facets! I mean come one! >=-P) Trammel was where you were safe. Get tired of all the PvP interaction you go to trammel.
    But heres the thing, I could kill wandering healers, NPC's and rob chests in the towns, use the stealing skill on certain NPC's and go grey in trammel. It wasn't a profitable career(ahh but it SHOULD be!!) but it was doable. And from what I remember you went grey, but there was absolutely 0 attacks between players unless they were faction/guild.
    So what i'd like to ask you all who stay out of PvP is this: Am I completely out of your whole game, im not even a prop to your little setting or anything? Like Do you not even want to observe me committing my petty crimes vs. NPCs? I mean its a midevil setting and these things did go on, wouldn't it be a nice little addition to your setting to see me running down the street with a guard chasing me "STOP THEIF!"?
    No reason why this is a bad thing right? Your just an observer of MY gaming experience.
    Now... lets take this just ONE step further I swear ill stop here.... If you do happen to see a guard chasing me down the street because I stole, do you want the option to freely be able to jump in and help the guard catch me? Your PvP protection would stay on, but for you and I it wouldnt be.
    Or........ is this "bait"? And I hope it dont take up the "bait" label. cuz I think it'd be awesome! Be a perfect way to "integrate" the world in a totally consensual way. Perhaps you can catch me looting in town and report me to the guards without attacking me yourself. Or report a crime to the bounty board. with no consequences to you other than me saying "you dirty lil do gooder nark!"
     
  2. Gaelis

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    Indeed, I would like it this way, to see crimes,fights even if not flagged all the time, to have the choise getting involved in whatever, fights, catching thiefs ...:)
     
  3. Ned888

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    You can probably commit crimes against NPCs as well as players.
     
  4. Owain

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    If you are talking crimes against other players, I would think that would be a form of PvP. Players not flagged for PvP would never see you outside of safe areas, I would think.
     
  5. Robby

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    Im talking mainly PvM theivery and evil deeds. Things that are.. negative karma I guess but not done against another player. Things done vs. NPC's or environment. If something is... basically a dirty deed according to the story and setting. Should it not flag me as a "criminal" to all players if im online? I guess this is pretty similar lord british's idea of contraband quests(boy do I love to bring up the contraband quest idea). By accepting contraband, your basically accepting that your doing something "against the law". If your smuggling "illegal items" around that are... according to the story things that only criminals deal with then your choosing to participate in criminal activity. By accepting the contraband quest you havent literally taken a negative action against another live player at all, what your doing then is not... well... "anti-social". Hehe. In the sense that I havent actually ruined someone else's entertainment by taking their chess board and dumping all the peices on the floor. And when you steal or murder someone in game who doesn't consent to it, then thats how it feels to them im guessing. And NPC's are just NPC's. I can abuse them however I please. Without being anti-social or a bully to other players.
    But anyway....
    Im sure a number of people know me and MY game pretty well now. I like to be a crook. Against other players! And if im playing the game as a crook.... its not really fun unless theres an opponent. The guards weren't fun. They pop out of nowhere and kill you in one whack. NPC's can be a fun and challenging opponent, but they must be implemented properly. Now... players can be even funner as opponents! But they must be implemented properly as well. You got those that love to play "cops and robbers" with full looting, open world PvP, you got others that are not going to participate in that sort of thing... period. Then you got others who might do it but ONCE in awhile. I mean really, in UO if going grey due to negative karma interactions with "the game" made you attackable by blues that pretty much covers all your bases. If the full loot PvPer walks down the street after you robbed the bank and sees any signs that your committing the robbery they'll run at you and try to slaughter you then loot you. If the person who doesn't ever want PvP interaction walks down the street and sees the bank robbery there either going to avoid you or call the guards or their full loot PvP pals that happen to be on the do-gooder side of the full loot PvP world, or just put you on the bounty board, report your bank robbery to the authorities testify against you in court, whatever. Then next we have the other possibility of a guy who walks down the street who, just like the other person I talked about, feels that ALL PvP interaction should be completely by consent, but does enjoy a little bit of risk now and again. Maybe this is his moment.. He checks his inventory.... golds in the bank... nothing real valuable on him that could be lootable, so he decides "what the heck? im gonna bonk the theif!" and goes for it! So he basically enters full loot PvP mode for a moment only with himself and this theif though(and all the thieves little bank robbing buddies that might be lurking round the corner that happen to be in his party). I feel like this scenario basically caters to all styles of play. Though, there should probably be a warning upon trying to attack a thief, a little message that says "This may flag you for full loot pvp to this person and his or her party, are you sure you are going to attack?" and you can turn it off in the option menu once your an experienced SotA player.
     
  6. Owain

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    If you're not flagged for PvP, I don't see what stealing from an npc could do to flag you for anything with respect to players. In town, guards might attack, but what could players do?
     
  7. Robby

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    The way I'd like to see it implemented is that taking certain actions would flag you for PvP and possibly full loot. So if you do some kind of deed that is "evil" or "negative karma". Such as robbing a bank or something even though.... its not really harming any actual persons, your playing the thief.
    Your out questing basically single player online perhaps and decide to start robbing the town.. Maybe even dropping powder kegs on locked doors and grabbing gold in the vault of the town bank.
    Lets say that.... this is a very very significant about of money your "stealing"(not from any player of course). So... much like slaying a dragon is very very hard to do, otherwise if gold is really easy to acquire it isnt going to mean much, the quest of committing bank robberies is going to have to be a tough business. It can be fun enough without having other players participate in the game I guess.... But.... I want live players involved in the whole crazy little scene.
    So, if im playing the game and deciding one day "im gonna rob a bank.... im experienced and theres probably like a 2% chance ill pull it off because guards, and do-gooder players will be onto me". I will definitely be willing to flag for open PvP for this experience. But... im not really a fan of the idea of having a little toggling option to do this. I'd rather it be based on how I play my game. So by blowing the vault open and grabbing the loot, im flagged for PvP and in the open world. Players in the area will see im criminal and attackable.
    Ah dang... somethings going on in real life. Dunno how clear this is but I tried my best. Ill have to clarify it better later if its not real clear. cya all.
     
  8. Gaelis

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    To make this happen you should be able to flag yourself for PvP in towns too, like everywhere outside....and erveryone who attacks you may be flagged too for a while.
     
  9. Beaumaris

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    The dialog here sorta implies that crime relates to PVP.

    Instead, how about relating crime to the virtues?

    If you have to steal something from a merchant in a town, make that be driven by and a choice between virtues or vices - and have it affect your virtue / role playing karma in some way around that.

    In this lens, we could see that committing a crime could be quest or event driven, and integrated into character choices and role playing. Not everything has to be about combat.
     
  10. Beaumaris

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    We might come up with simple game situations where what I just said could be put to work.

    For example, what if the game had an event where all food went rotten for a week? What would happen, what would the choices be, and how would it relate to crime, ramifications, and choices? What would happen is that you would begin to starve as a player character. Without food, you would not regenerate health or be hampered in your run speed or something for the next week that would really be unpleasant. In return, you would gain a point of sacrifice. However, if you made a different choice to steal food from a merchant, to eat and forgo that penalty during the game event (say to maintain your upper hand in PVP), you would lose a point of sacrifice.

    Could we think of other ways that a simple game event like this could be connected to virtues to connect to choices to connect to one's willingness to engage in a crime or not?
     
  11. Sold and gone

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    I would not starve.....*sharpens skinning knives* muhahahahaha
     
  12. Owain

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    Crime relates to the Virtues, and so can PvP. Crime can be used to oppose the Virtues, and it can be used to support a rival philosophy opposed to the Virtues. PVP can be used the same way. As an Anti-PK, if the Virtues have been lost, I propose to use PvP to help restore them. The game will have to reveal how that is to be best accomplished.
     
    Gaelis and High Baron O`Sullivan like this.
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