Dismiss Notice
This Section is READ ONLY - All Posts Are Archived

Afraid that the combat system might get ditched

Discussion in 'Release 9 Feedback' started by Lord_Darkmoon, Aug 25, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Isaiah

    Isaiah Avatar

    Messages:
    6,887
    Likes Received:
    8,359
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    After the live dev chat I think the system will be fun. The removal of the 1 second cool down on glyph based combat will make a huge difference.

    It may seem like a small change, but that small change is massive considering those seconds add up and completely change the way we interact with the glyphs. There is no reason the deck system will not function.


    Truly, I think you can relax, because the deck system is far more functional than you think. I was a skeptic, but I've seen it work.
     
    Retro, Kaisa and Time Lord like this.
  2. Isaiah

    Isaiah Avatar

    Messages:
    6,887
    Likes Received:
    8,359
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Now imagine this scenerio. The medic has a "treat chest wound skill" although he just used it and he has to wait a few seconds before he can use it again.

    Now imagine this scenerio. The medic has a "treat chest wound skill" he uses the deck system and he has three more "treat chest wound skills" to burn because he has 5 out of 20 of his skills queued up in his deck, and has 9 slots for the skills. Meanwhile he can click off all non essential skills while he's using it.

    I know that's a bad analogy, but it's true.
     
    Time Lord likes this.
  3. High Baron Asguard

    High Baron Asguard Avatar

    Messages:
    1,832
    Likes Received:
    1,904
    Trophy Points:
    125

    well the cool down COULD be changing the O2 bottle :p
    but your right, cool downs make no sense either, general fatigue makes sense and so does time to do something. So it should take up x amount of time to rip open a defib pad and slap onto a sucking chest wound. Even limits to the amount of times certain things can be used, ie limited amount of defib pads
     
    Isaiah [MGT] likes this.
  4. Bambi Alyenare

    Bambi Alyenare Avatar

    Messages:
    32
    Likes Received:
    67
    Trophy Points:
    8

    Okay, to use your own example, what happens to your party healer when a party member gets hit with a deadly poison? To have to rely on the luck of the draw for that Cure Poison to pop up is ridiculous. Oh, so you'll just balance your deck with half Cures and half Heals? Gee, now you can't heal everyone because un-needed Cures are in the way.

    This deck concept works fine for Magic The Gathering. Leave it there I say. The reason so many MMOs use the hotkey, user-assigned skill approach is *BECAUSE IT WORKS*
     
    Joviex likes this.
  5. Isaiah

    Isaiah Avatar

    Messages:
    6,887
    Likes Received:
    8,359
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    If you have 5 healing touch spells, 5 heal ray, 5 purify 5 purify burst, and 5 of the AOE heals... with 9 slots you should do fine.

    One purify burst would heal your party.

    Also keep in mind you can have 2 additional alternate decks.

    So yeah a low level healer might not be good, but since when did low level anything do a great job. However a high level healer will be quite powerful.

    Sent from my Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk.
     
    Lord Baldrith likes this.
  6. High Baron Asguard

    High Baron Asguard Avatar

    Messages:
    1,832
    Likes Received:
    1,904
    Trophy Points:
    125


    You know in all the time I have been treating people, I have never forgotten what paracetamol was and had to give Methoxy for a headache, or conversely forgotten what Methoxy was and had to give paracetamol for major trauma
     
    Malchor1 and Joviex like this.
  7. Time Lord

    Time Lord Avatar

    Messages:
    8,336
    Likes Received:
    28,405
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    ~SOTA Monk~ ~Monastery~ ~Thailand~
    "The Alzheimer's Association"
    :rolleyes: (Don't Forget to Give)
    I'm not sure about the "forgetting" thing... as I've said before I excuse it by "haven't had the opportunity" thing...

    Someone else described it this way; "Our Avatars live in a magical world and all their super human abilities come from the magic that flows through our gaming world". In our real world we are certainly not going to be able to bring anyone back to life and have them in top fighting fitness in as little time as a few seconds, so I can forgive some things about any game because it is a game.
    Melee has special hits and auto strikes that occur, I can see that happening in fights, where special attack moves aren't that easy to land or have the right circumstance to employ them. So I can forgive that too.

    When I look at how many people have commented on this game, I'm always amazed at how few of us actually post anything here in the forums for comment. $4,713,577.00 USD have been pledged in support of this game thus far with only 217,000 comments having been posted here in our forums... "That's an average of $21.72 USD per comment!"... :eek: wow those all those comments don't come cheap! :confused:

    "Finding our way back to the tree"
    [​IMG]

    I don't think all those people that are silent are in any way less supportive to what's being created here than I am. In many ways our comments here are like ornaments on a tree, the tree provided by what and how the game is being created, such as our card combat system. So we can't in many cases choose what our game creators are producing or deciding to make or how to make it. But we can offer ideas to hang on the tree they provide us with, so we can bring our ideas to it for consideration with all the rest of the 217,000 other comments from posts just like this one.

    Of all those 217,000 posts, I can't think of a one of them that resulted in a complete do over of any system within the game. So, in accepting that as fact, then I can only say that "we can help add to the game, but not subtract from it" because it hasn't happened yet that they should reverse their development course. Which all of this reminds me of how frustrated Richard and the rest of the Portalarium Development Team were when working on large EA/Origin games and having to be second guessed by the Corporate Executives of those type of companies. It just gets in the way of truly innovative creation. But here, we are not their Corporate Executives, we're only Fans and backers. They hear us and what we have to say because they do read the forums just as we do.

    "These comments have been in support of $21.70 of of our pledges donations so I hope that they matter"
    I do hope that these outcries of frustration have some viable solution. We had so many negative comments about PvP when PvP wasn't even here yet. That was a very strange fact to me, when people were complaining that our game was somehow not going to have any PvP. Now that we do have PvP and a very challenging way of doing it, but we now also have people who complain that our combat is not conforming to be the same as other games, or doesn't make sense, or is too challenging for them to enjoy it.

    So, from all of this I can say that we can offer our ideas and complaints in hopes to bring about a more exciting game we all can enjoy, but changing course is not in the cards,
    "It's Inside Our Cards"
    [​IMG]
    ~Time Lord~:rolleyes:
     
    Jynx, Lord Baldrith, Skwal and 2 others like this.
  8. sn0tub

    sn0tub Avatar

    Messages:
    303
    Likes Received:
    330
    Trophy Points:
    43
    wow, if medics could fix sucking chest wounds in one second with no gcd, war just got so much more fun!

    I hope they remove the cast time and cd on repair traumatic amputation

    Keep coming with the emotive arguments. Youre too worked up to explain it.

    So they removing the cool down on skills? I really liked the feature, obviously with some tweaking. I hope there is some protection to prevent latency being a decider.
     
    Isaiah [MGT] and Time Lord like this.
  9. twobells

    twobells Avatar

    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    83
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    England
    I couldn't bear the idea that combat moved to a WoW style, although I would prefer a return to turn-based and have no idea why turn-based was abandoned. :-/
     
    Joviex, Time Lord and Lord Baldrith like this.
  10. StrangerDiamond

    StrangerDiamond Avatar

    Messages:
    4,355
    Likes Received:
    4,999
    Trophy Points:
    153
    After thinking a while, I still think we should remake this game from the ground up.

    I'm trying to get my friends to join without success... even when I tell them my story and how genius RG is and how he's gonna fix this and that...

    All they do is laugh because its too much of a mashup between other games without offering full features of any. Of course I tell them about the story and that my childhood hero Lord Hickman is writting, that its unfinished... but then they ask questions about direction and the combat system is too much, the crafting system not really original... house deco is pretty good but then again not that many players are into building a virtual home.

    I'm really not into other games, I played WoW and guildwars beta but I really disliked the horrid feeling of having no influence whatsoever and the general commercial direction of those games, the craving for adrenaline and expansions, uf no me gusta. I understand tho why people prefer those games... they're smooth and fluid and responsive, intuitive and simple. Not that many people like roleplay...

    Thats an argument for another time I guess, I still suggest scrapping it all (including pvp and loot and death rules) and making something truely original : NOT something to please everyone but aiming @ your niche correctly with OFFICIAL polls and a dynamic community manager that participates in forums.

    I would also FIRE 2 people, randomly, use short straw then hire two people from the forums. That makes it interesting, risk vs reward ! lol

    Don't come to me after and make me say "I told you" :p
     
    Lord Baldrith and Time Lord like this.
  11. StrangerDiamond

    StrangerDiamond Avatar

    Messages:
    4,355
    Likes Received:
    4,999
    Trophy Points:
    153

    with the current proposed rules... I would also favor turn based... or muuuuch slower combat.

    We're putting a cheap bandaid on a gaping lag wound with the card system, because admittedly the system was created to offset some lag.

    hmph... I totally hate cloud developpement right now. It's like having a porshe and having 70mph speed limit...

    yay... much torque...
     
  12. Bow Vale

    Bow Vale Avatar

    Messages:
    1,729
    Likes Received:
    4,699
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Pericaliya
    I haven't read all this post or others recently so if my idea has been said before please forget.

    I really do like the card combat in its present form, but I do understand the randomness putting people off to a degree. Having an innovative combat system is a must for the game to do well I think, anything similar to present systems just wouldn’t make sota shine.

    I think having each slot filled by a card when combat is initiated as we get at present in a random manner based on the overall deck and slugs etc should be kept. But once those slots are filled they remain as they are until either the spell is cast or the card is discarded. Slugs populating a slot would automatically swap out after a duration as of present and either be filled with a cast able spell/move which would remain or again a slug that would flip random again. Discarding would need to be easy, like a double press of the key assigned or a longer hold duration.
    I think this change would allow a player to hold cards that they get to be used later. Who wants heal spell especially at the beginning of a fight, but it might be handy to know that you have one lined up when you decide to use. The beginning of a fight would be quite chaotic as you have to use what comes up as we are doing at the moment, but as the fight goes on and you are keeping some cards that you feel will be useful in the time ahead you would actually be making a design choice on your useable cards and shaping your strategy as the fight progresses. It would be handy to keep that stun or root instead of 'having' to use before its goes again, for a time that you want to cast a longer duration spell or you feel they will flee when low health. Giving the player some control back would I think be good for combat.
     
  13. Isaiah

    Isaiah Avatar

    Messages:
    6,887
    Likes Received:
    8,359
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    There's no need for the game to be remade from the ground up. The glyph system works just fine. It works better than fine. It is far superior to the standard toolbar system. Instead of having a cool down, the deck will continually deal out your skills to you, and you can use them one right after the other. Instead of firing one fireball and waiting for a timer, you may get 3 fireballs. In fact you might want to discard one of the fireballs, because you know you won't need all three and it would be better to let a new skill appear with a new timer.

    It's an exceptional system. Without cool downs and stuff, it works fantastic.
     
    Time Lord likes this.
  14. High Baron Asguard

    High Baron Asguard Avatar

    Messages:
    1,832
    Likes Received:
    1,904
    Trophy Points:
    125


    Sorry but its not, I know you like it but its complete rubbish. As I have said before IF it is so good put it up against a standard system, no penalties for using the standard system just random card vs standard and see which people WANT to play.

    Well they said they wanted people to try it, they have and they said that if people hated it they had built time in to replace it, its time to do so.
     
  15. Isaiah

    Isaiah Avatar

    Messages:
    6,887
    Likes Received:
    8,359
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    I hope they take you up on that challenge. LoL. When there was a 1 second cool down I think you had a good argument there, but without the 1 second cooldown there is no doubt the deck is superior.

    Although seeing is believing.
     
    Time Lord likes this.
  16. docdoom77

    docdoom77 Avatar

    Messages:
    1,274
    Likes Received:
    3,381
    Trophy Points:
    125
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Latveria

    I'm fairly certain they meant if "most people hated it." That is clearly not the case. I don't like it, but a lot of people do and the dev team is in love with it. I'm farily certain the darn thing is staying. That being said I agree that it's time to take the training wheels of of locked decks. As I said before, the cooldown and lack of combos should be enough of a balancing factor without adding in additional focus penalties.
     
    Kaisa likes this.
  17. Isaiah

    Isaiah Avatar

    Messages:
    6,887
    Likes Received:
    8,359
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    I think the reason they need the focus cost on the locked decks is because they want more people to try the deck system. If people just give it a shot then they will likely see that it works. I was a harsh critic of the system until I played it in R8. R9 it started out gimped, but they vowed to ungimp it so I don't see how anybody could go wrong with the glyph system.

    Although I'm not against them taking the training wheels off later on if they want. Truth of the matter is anybody who uses the deck system has an advantage. Plain and simple. If you want to gimp yourself by using the static toolbar, be my guest. I hope they let me loot you.
     
  18. High Baron Asguard

    High Baron Asguard Avatar

    Messages:
    1,832
    Likes Received:
    1,904
    Trophy Points:
    125

    and there is the problem, this is not supposed to just be a MMO PVP, if it suddenly is then I want my money back because that's not what I was bought and that is false advertising, I want what they claimed, a single player game that I can CHOSE to play with someone else if I want to
     
    Kal_Alyenare, Joviex and docdoom77 like this.
  19. Isaiah

    Isaiah Avatar

    Messages:
    6,887
    Likes Received:
    8,359
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Oh, now come on. They've been saying this game would have SPO FPO and OPO and single player offline, since march of 2013. Also, LB said he used to compete in fencing and after the match he would say, "darn, I knew that technique, but it just didn't come to mind in this tournament."

    Everything you say you didn't want was the plan from before they even got public feedback. This deck system was born out of that concept he talked about in march of 2013.

    It really sounds like you never watched a dev chat. Every single thing you are upset about now was talked about then. You can be upset about the design and implementation, but you cannot say this isn't what you paid for. Rewatch the videos, and see for yourself.

    Sent from my Galaxy S5 using Tapatalk.
     
    Lord Baldrith likes this.
  20. High Baron Asguard

    High Baron Asguard Avatar

    Messages:
    1,832
    Likes Received:
    1,904
    Trophy Points:
    125


    actually I watched them all during kickstarter. And there was no MTG mentioned, there was also no forcing players into PvP and it was also supposed to be playerable single player and there were supposed to be companions. Stangly the game has turned into MTG PvP MMO and companions have vanished. I haven't started calling this Colonial Marines yet but I am close
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.