Why aren't these available in the add-on store?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by KingPramus, Jul 19, 2014.

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  1. KingPramus

    KingPramus Avatar

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    IMO, its hard to argue that the game isn't pay-to-win when you have these advantages in the higher pledged tiers, but they are damn near unattainable from people in the lower ones.

    Don't get me wrong, I think people in the higher tiers should be rewarded for their generous contributions. I myself was only able to purchase at the Ancestor level. But, I feel like some of the other people here when I say that this puts those who pledged lower at a disadvantage.

    I just want to know why we can't at least see these things in the add-on store.

    Expert Level Crafting Station

    Eight (8) total expert level crafting stations for your home, uniquely identifiable as Benefactor's crafting stations.


    and

    Sword of Ba'Heer

    A unique, startling level weapon that is imbued with precious metals and jewels suitable for enchanting. Is permanently enchanted as a light source.
     
  2. abovenyquist

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    First step to answering that is to see if those rewards were listed as being *exclusive* to those particular pledge tiers, in which case, they should stay such. If not, then it's an open question.
     
  3. Duke Lorimus

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    You will most likely see them , just with a different skin applied to them.
     
  4. Batoche1864

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    While they aren't available in the add-on store I'm pretty sure I saw that it will be possible to create similar function items in-game (I believe the only exclusive benefit was durability.)

    So not everything needs to be in the add-on store for it to be available in game. We'll have a much better idea once we get a pre-alpha release that has crafting features that take player skill levels & tool/station levels into account.

    If I recall correctly, currently all tool/station levels are treated as expert with zero failure rate.

    Edit. Additional thought

    For that matter once crafting gets a higher level of polish I wouldn't be surprised to see other crafting items in the add-on store. It all has to do with what's available and when is it available.
     
  5. Numa

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    Frankly, I'd be happy with the option of getting beginner crafting stations in the store- then work my way up ingame.
     
  6. Bowen Bloodgood

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    None of these items need to be in the store for players to compete. So I have a fancy looking starter sword and a crafting station the looks different than the ones sitting outside. How exactly am I at an advantage? Does anyone seriously think that only home owners are going to have access to expert crafting stations? Or a starter sword is so much better than a crafted iron sword?
     
  7. Gaelis

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    This is what I'm thinking too

    "Four (4) total expert level crafting stations for your home, uniquely identifiable as Benefactor's crafting stations."

    There is no need to explain it like they do, if there is no other way to get expert lvl crafting stations :)
     
  8. David J Thompson

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    What is the point of contributing thousands of dollars of real money unless you get substantial value for your purchase? Sure there might be a few people willing to donate for the love of the game or a pretty or rare skin, but they will unquestionably bring in more game developing dollars if the packages have some in game advantages.
     
  9. Trenyc

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    Er, isn't buying them in the Addon Store still paying to win?
     
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  10. Gix

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    I've pledged Adventurer and I don't feel like I have some sort of disadvantage or anything. If I get anything in the game, I would like to earn it in-game.

    Besides, a crafting table? I'll let the others worry about that; I'm here to save the world from whatever it needs saving.

    What is it with most gamers in multi-player environments?
    [​IMG]
     
  11. David J Thompson

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    You make that sound like a bad thing. I think pay for convenience is a better term personally. The truth is people such as myself working 6 days a week cant keep up with people with more time on there hands. Further, people that actually can play for many hours every day are getting far more out of games than I am, despite paying the same amount for the game. Should we then limit the number of hours each player can play to be "fair" to busier people? Should games charge by the hour? Of course not, it is ridiculous, as is trying to limit the amount of money the game developers can raise by trying to use pejorative terminology to prevent players from using a different pathway for in game fun. If anything players should be supportive of companies enlightened enough to provide such sales of gold, items and services; it keep Chinese gold-farmers from doing it and put the money right back into the game for everyone to enjoy. The money is going to be spent anyway so it might as well go back to the community.
     
  12. StaticGrazer

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    Here's a quick thought....EXPERT level crafting station.

    That implys a certain amount of crafting skill level. I'm not sure of what the highest skill is going to be called in Sota, but, in UO ( for example) there was Master, and Grand Master ( and as I understand it you could achieve multiples of grand master). So honestly there's nothing saying that an Expert level crafting station will even be the BEST you can get.

    So with the possibility in mind, they may not be available because they're intended as an in game craftable item, maybe not even the best you can get.

    Also, paying money will almost always give you a small advantage to a game. Maybe not a game breaker, but an advantage none the less.
    I believed how items can be obtained should be regulated, but not that they cannot be obtained through a real world transaction. A lot of money is being put into making Sota, but much more will be needed to keep the game going ( and to receive updates ).
     
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  13. Trenyc

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    Another reality of the scenario you just mentioned is that you're not the only one living it. I can't play for hours every day. Not even close. I play video games maybe three to four hours per week, and that amount of time will be decreasing well before the launch of SotA. I absolutely will not be able to keep up with people who play hours on end, and I'm fine with that.

    The problem with pay to win type systems, though, is that the definition of "success" in the game comes to closely mirror one of the socioeconomic realities that causes a lot of people a lot of stress. I play games to have fun--to take a break from the less than pleasant things I have to deal with daily and immerse myself in some interactive fiction. I do not play so I can acquire a new line item for my annual budget--especially one that stands to run me sums approaching what I might otherwise spend on things like a new TV, a new console video game system, a new cell phone, or ten other top shelf games. And when the design of the game's item acquisition system(s) forces me to confront the reality that I might have to do to even be competitive, even in a playful, game-appropriate sense, with the people who have as little time to play as I do, it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. I don't need that added expense in my life; I don't need that stress.

    Of course, in this sense I can speak only for myself. I'm sure others have enough expendable income that they can afford to happily participate in such a system. I understand the folks at Portalarium need to eat, and that means they need to generate income. I just can't support the core principle behind a pay to win type game, and I rather don't want to see this turn into that any more than it already has.
     
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  14. David J Thompson

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    What do you mean buy play to win? Getting something only through money in game that is necessary to compete at top level ? If that is what you mean i can agree. Paying money to save hours of grinding for useful and rare items is about the only way i can often get things. It has been immensely frustration for me to fall far behind my friends in game after game. I eventually level up but by that time they have moved on or are about to and have lost that new and exciting game feeling.
     
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  15. Biblik

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    Are we making a game worth paying for?

    (Player A pays $2 grand in response before the game is made)

    We made a game worth playing

    (Player B plays $50 to play said game, no recurring payments)

    Does Player A deserve any advantages to Player B? My opinion yes. Does that mean Player B going forward is pay to win? Make your own decisions...
     
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  16. SmokerKGB

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    -An expert crafting station only gives you better odds of making fewer "crap" items when events are added to crafting... Remember, that players will also be getting Vendors, and this game has "selective" multiplay, so I think lot security will not be an open issue. I for one want my vendor public, and who cares if a player in SPO mode uses my tables (they don't wear out, multi ppl can use them, so what is the issue?). Why would anyone try to bar ppl from using them?

    -It's been said that these expert stations will also be located throughout the World for public use, they will be spread out, so you will need to find them...

    -A beginner item is still a beginner item, even though it is a "light source", it will most likely be able to be charged with fewer charges than other chargeable items (like wands & staves)... After one advances to higher levels, they will most likely use it as a house decoration...

    -If these items are put in the "store", it will only devalue them as a reward...

    So No, don't put them in the store...
     
  17. Logain

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    Guess how frustrating it is for that guy playing the game for 40 hours per week to be annihilated by the kid that played an hour but who's parents bought him some fancy equipment. I tend to be 'careful' with the 'beginner item' tag. Take the Elven bow as an example. $20 buys you a secure win on the battlefield in that case, since this bow is ~considerably~ better than any other distance weapon (judging by the R9 values, which may be subject to change). I shrudder thinking what $60 might buy you for the bow, cloack and armour. Not to mention when it's about 'secret effects' such as with Lord British cloack and the oracle stone head. You wouldn't even know why you lost there ;)
     
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  18. Trenyc

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    I do understand what you mean. I won't have a whole lot of time to play, either. But the solution to accommodating casual players does not lie in bringing real-world socioeconomic divides into the game world. Rather, the developers should build the game in such a way that casual gamers can still have fun with it and can still play with their friends who have passed them in progression.
     
  19. David J Thompson

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    In EQ2 they had mentoring or some such term so your higher level friends could become your level and party with you, that was a nice feature. There are strong arguments on both side of this, but the reality is money will be spent by more affluent players regardless and i would rather it goes to the developers as opposed to some China based gaming pimp forcing his unhappy geeks to hit the keyboard until their poor sore finger bleed. I say cut of the revenue and let our foreign geek brothers be allowed to play for fun like they are supposed to. wink.
     
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  20. Trenyc

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    The more widespread RMT becomes, the less accessible the game is to people who don't have hundreds or thousands of dollars they can afford to spend or who don't want to spend that kind of money. Like I said above, I understand that Portalarium employees need to be paid, and that means finding ways to generate income. That doesn't absolve them from a responsibility to do right by their customers, though. Portalarium is a business, not a charity. I'm happy to pay to buy the game if it's good. I'm happy to pay a subscription to keep the hamsters running at home base. But I don't owe anyone at Portalarium enough loyalty to argue that inflated costs on imaginary goods are justifiable because RG and co. need to be paid. Maybe they are justifiable because people are willing to pay for them, which is a different matter entirely. I'm not so willing, and it makes me feel a bit sick inside seeing that the video game industry is at a point where this kind of business model is even apparently necessary, if that's truly how it is.
     
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