Consensual pvp???? Stay a While and Listen Why this is no fun.....

Discussion in 'PvP Gameplay' started by gonzo9002, Aug 2, 2014.

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  1. Enfo

    Enfo Avatar

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    Well some nice discussion, but what opinions do you have of PVP that would involve the most amount of players?

    The two extremes are are either PVP only in Arenas and Battlegrounds, or Full open PVP anywhere. What opinion do you have that would stand in the middle and work decently ( not completely ) for both sides? PVP areas? Flagged PVP?

    Also, with either side of the arguement, where do you stand on PVP Loot/Rewards?

    Personal I can agree with some of the planned designs as far as the oracle/guild/area pvp areas, my only issue would stand more on the reward spectrum, where so far, pvp just seems to have to little risk or reward to warrant it at the moment for me ( at least what I prefer, just paying a ransom seems piddly to me).
     
  2. blaquerogue

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    You need to stop giving me ideas! ;)
     
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  3. FireLotus

    FireLotus Royal Bard & Master Dabbler Dev Emeritus

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    I had to come through and do a bit of sweeping. Please remember to keep the discussion on topic and not delve into personal attacks aimed at others opinions/motivations. The forum rule regarding this behavior is as follows:

    Act with Virtue:
    Treat others as you would want to be treated. We are all people united under the same banner, with similar hopes and many different opinions. Show respect for one another, disagree with grace, and offer opinions with humility. And sheath those swords… there are absolutely no personal attacks allowed.​

     
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  4. blaquerogue

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    this has probably been said a million times already, but here the perfect set up to me (my opinion mind you)

    Full Loot (my def) - if i kill you i can take whatever i want! I will probably never take everything on a body, since to me its a waste of time! I wont need everything you have on you and it will over weight me, when weight allowances go into effect. This "Open PVP" will be by CHOICE!, you will have to click a button to accept full loot prior to going into it. If you choose not to take that, fine its your choice and you will not be looted, but you will not be able to fight me either without having that option on. No need for you to fully take from me, if i cannot fully take fully from you! Fair is fair! Now none have to worry about being grieved by either side! If you keep getting killed in full loot, and looted. either get better at PVP (there are many facets for that), or just not pick that open pvp as a choice from the start. If you keep getting killed in "open Pvp" you will be only grieving yourselves at that point, and i would suggest ask someone to help you become better at it!

    Whatever else they come up with, wont matter to me personally, since ill be in the full loot category!
     
  5. rune_74

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    Ok, sure. If you are willing to let gear be made expensive to replace because it can get better and isn't basic then I see no issue with this. But, you would have to be willing to let the gear not be dictated by that playstyle.
     
  6. makasouleater

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    I think you are playing the wrong kind of game. It sounds like you want to play a MOBA. I am sorry but you are 100 percent wrong, if they put in what your talking about the game would be dead within a few weeks. The only people who get jollys or enjoy a open world full loot, no restriction pvp are people who enjoy bulling people around. Killing new players over and over till they all leave, is what it ends up doing. Then the only people left, are the crazy people who sit 24 7 and grind and play.
    Even in games like dark fall, which doesnt have many people to start with, would have even less if they removed the safe zones, which effectively makes it so u can avoid pvp all the time if you want. Having a full pvp world, is the most limiting game u can play. It gets rid of casual players, role players, people who dont like to be bullied, and only leaves a game full of grumpy old men lol.
     
  7. Abydos

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    For sure, SotA sould be Full Loot whit the consual PvP.
     
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  8. makasouleater

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    I dono, even dark fall got the message that catering to just the people that want to kill new players over and over, is just a way to kill your game. There isnt really un consensual pvp in dark fall any more. The numbers are growing because of that point. Now there are safe zones, and you never have to leave said safe zones unless you want to. There are the people like the OP who yell and scream, and say all newbies should be thrown out into the non safe zones, so they can kill them over and over. Dark fall doesnt seem to show interest in these players any more, as they are a tiny tiny tiny minority.

    Of course you still see them, they are in the general chat calling people random names, telling them stuff they have no concept about. As you pointed out, trying to call your self hardcore for killing people who cant wont or dont know how to defend themselves. You get that though, but just like real world, the tiny portion of people who enjoy picking on people like that is small.
     
  9. Owain

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    No one is saying that there can't be expensive gear in the game, but in Open PvP, the most expensive gear probably won't be used if less expensive gear is adequate. If less expensive gear isn't adequate, why even bother having it in the game? According to the SotA philosophy expressed by the devs, the best gear will be probably be marginally better than normal gear, but not exponentially better. If so, then if there is a Full Loot option, normal gear will be the gear of choice.
     
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  10. Wagram

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    If you flag for PvP you know what to expect,( full loot or not) that for the PvP'ers to sort out with the Dev's.

    If you flag for PvE you do not expect to be herded into a PvP zone to make the pk'ers happy and you certainly do not expect to be denied entering every Hex on the Map to obtain rare items.
    So no PvP only zones, they can PvP everywhere.

    They are not some special breed that should get any concessions above anyone else.
     
  11. blaquerogue

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    I totally disagree with your statement, for a couple reasons, #1 i dont just go around killing off people because i can (i hunt those that do) so understand that first. Second it is an option you can choose to opt out of if you wish. personally i dont go around bullying people and i dont have friends that do that, i kill those that do! But if a player is so one sided about full loot (not wanting it) you have the option of not playing that way! and on top of that, if you feel too much pride to not ask for help and keep putting yourselves in a position of being bullied, and looted. You have done the one thing you hate so much to yourselves, Grieving yourself! So for those that do not like the full loot option, opt out! It wont bother me and it definitely wont hurt the game in the least since those that complain about it so much wont be playing that style! My friends and i and others (which are many) will still go on and be happy in the game with our style! That you wont even have to worry about!
     
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  12. blaquerogue

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    ive said many times before you will never see me naked on the the battlefield! Why would i hinder myself so much? I will be wearing my best and if your not and you get killed, that is your fault! (not directed at you personally but generally)
     
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  13. StrangerDiamond

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    reading this thread makes me grind my teeth... seeing so much people who are already making big compromises to keep talking constructively is eerie...

    If I flag Open PVP ***FULL LOOT*** I don't want to see anyone that isn't flagged, I don't want to see their items I don't want to see their houses, I don't want to hear about them.

    Without this total separation I will never have a fun experience. It makes me laugh so wrong that people don't remember gamemasters and seers in UO who attempted to give a story and direction to pvp ; especially the fact they were going to succeed.

    Hey I would be the only man left in the world with noone to pvp with me I'd still be laughing... and laughing... Darkfall let me laugh... lol
     
  14. Mishri

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    I know Chris and Darkstarr discussed full loot as an option, and the issue I believe they saw (I might not remember correctly) was that with grouping. They didn't want to seperate people out into you can group with this person and you can't group with this person, and you can't attack someone because they aren't the right loot/pvp flag for you.

    The groups become an issue because if I flag for full loot and my friend doesn't, either we can't group or it splits up loot tables all weird. I also don't think they'll want people who are further separated out of non pvp, into pvp, into loot into no loot into partial loot.

    I don't think it would be too much of an issue, but it does depend on player numbers, and I would agree 1 style of looting would be more desirable over 2 or 3 if possible. We start getting to the point where we are trying to please too many people. I'll have a better formed opinion on whether full loot should even be an option (or possibly mandatory in pvp) once we get closer to knowing the Time to gear. Some of this is, storage (bank), some of it is travel, some of this depends on how battlegrounds with objective matters. Another part of it is how time consuming is it to get a piece of equipment. my total time spent for some pieces of gear in other MMO and muds is in the 30-50 hour range. I would hate to lose something like that, even if it isn't more powerful and it's just a rare/unique color/glow/effect.

    You can say, just don't equip it then, but that completely removes me from world pvp (which I don't know if I want to do yet or not either, depends on many factors, including what can be taken, when I can be attacked, what penalties an attacker might face)
     
  15. Owain

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    I wouldn't think it would be that tough to coordinate. I have friends that don't PvP. With them (particularly my wife) I'll flag for PvE. Even with friends that PvP, there may be circumstances that require us to unflag, although I can't imagine what that might be. That's why I assume there will be a chat function in the game so players can coordinate things like that.
     
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  16. Mercyful Fate

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    Full loot is simply an OPTIONAL attribute of the individual. If one player who has full loot enabled is grouped with another that does not, and they both die to others, then the full loot player can be fully looted while the other can only be partially looted. The Risk vs. Reward setting can scale from only one ransomed item up to full loot and impact how much that player can be looted. If the player with minimum loot risk is the victor then they can only loot the minimal amount from the victim even if said victim is flagged full loot because of the little risk he himself had set. It's rather simple in concept when you think about it. And also does NOT force full loot on anyone that doesn't want to go that far on the Risk scale but allows players that want it to have it.
     
  17. Sophi

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    I'm a little muddled after all this...
    So pls tell me if i've got this down because i am not an experienced pvp'r and before shroud i avoided it like the plague actually....

    ok, if someone lists themselves as 'full loot' that means they can only fight others marked as 'full loot'? The only reason i can think of for anyone to do this is that they think they are the biggest and the baddest (King of the Hill syndrome is what i calls it) and will therefore benefit by taking all the stuff from someone else who thinks they are the biggest and the baddest. Is that kind of right?

    so for those of us that don't have that level of confidence in our pvp skills, we will never go up against the best pvp'rs because we (for obvious reasons) will not list ourselves as 'full loot'.

    So then we will have say... maybe different pvp arenas for the different levels (kind of heavy weight, middle weight and feather weight like they have in boxing)?

    am i on the right track here?
     
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  18. Gaelis

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    At this time there is no full loot planned Sophi :) You can flag yourself for PvP permanent ( to fight and get attacted almost everwhere) or you can only fight against other players in PvP flagged areas so far ( like right now). You will be looted if you die but only one piece stuff of Inventory or amor you wear ...or you have to pay some Gold instead. Thats what I remember. :)
     
  19. Ome

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    There are good reasons for full loot in a game. There's good reason for consequence in all games.
    Real consequences like full loot changes everything. Without loss there's no potential for any
    meaningful sacrifice. Someone could risk losing their loot to save you from losing yours. The
    sacrifices people make are a lot more appreciated when there is something to lose. I've heard my elders
    talk about mmorpgs where you die and your dead. They talk about the intensity of running into a dragon
    and the joy of defeating it. It would be a lot more realistic and a challenge that builds more realistic choices.
    You may find yourself more dependent and involved with others and guilds. You may find yourself spending
    tons of time in practice and preparation before you move on where as games without realistic consequences
    have to fill in that time with tons of content. In other words, a smaller amount of content can last much longer.
    And for those who play the villain in the game, a victory against them would feel so much more meaningful.
    And those who play villains would be playing an important role to help us prepare for challenges in the real world.
    I remember when I was a kid and you couldn't save your game. I would throw the controller at the tv at times but
    man did it feel good when you defeated the game. I think the more realistic the game the better it prepares our
    minds for real world scenarios and at times have pondered if todays games are some kind of plot to dumb down people.
    This is why i got so stoked when i heard R.G. talk about making a game that doesn't hold your hand.
    There's no need for all games to be like this but why are all games not like this? Because it's become all about the majority.
    There is not much made for the minority. Maybe this isn't the game to bring back hardcore but perhaps one day a game will do just that.
    I'm sure many would support it on kickstarter. And a true hardcore mmo, if made well, could turn out to be
    a huge game. Breaking the mold has never been about polling the majority. And often folks find there's great
    value in creations that were unforeseen by a majority. I feel like a much better case can be made then my
    little view. But I for one don't believe one side is right about everything. But I will say that one side
    has an abundance of games providing them with no loot pvp.
     
  20. Mercyful Fate

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    I, and many others, understand your trepidation. One bad experience tends to do that to people. As in anything in life, in order to get better, you have to practice. Everyone, when first starting out, gets their butt handed to them. However, stick with it. To truly feel excitement in a game is to break out of the 'kill 1,000 rats' mentality and embrace the unscripted alternative that is PvP.

    Full loot is not "Current Thinking" but is an option that quite a few want to see implemented without being forced upon those that do not want it. But, yes, it's kind of like: If you want to play with the pros you have to pay the 'entry' fee ( or in this case the 'death' fee ). It's not for everybody but should not be excluded either.

    While there are many of us that want to see full loot implemented, some of us realize that folks such as yourself also want to PvP but not willing to "risk it all" so to speak. Portalarium is catering to you. You can participate in PvP with minimum risk. You will still fight against players more experienced than yourself ( as well as those of your level ) but you won't lose much upon your death.
     
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