I am shocked by the character progression system

I appreciate all your discussion and thoughts concerning the combat system!

But for the moment please stick to the topic and the question if this level-based progression system is what we will get in the final game?

 

I must say I enjoyed the stick of truth but a) I knew that was going to be turn based when I went into it and b) the setting makes sense for a turn based game, the whole setting is a satire of an RPG, this is different though. For starters its different because of the amount of money I have spent on it, I expect a game I still want to be playing in 10 years not one I play for a month and then move on

 

Probably, it would be a MASSIVE shift to change it now.

 

I was actually thinking that lag would not be a factor. The idea would be more like someone swings a sword at you and you might have the following options...

1. Parry with your sword. This would give you a defensive move hat is LIKELY to block the attack, but also to give you an opportunity in the next round to counter attack.
2. Block with your sword. This would give you a greater defensive chance to block the attack, but no counter attack. The benefit would be that you then have your off hand free to perform another action the next round because the swords are tied up. Shield Bash?
3. Block with your shield. This would give you the best defensive chance to block the attack, but no counter attack.
4. Block and your shield and attack with your sword. Because you're performing two actions at once this would give you a good defensive chance, while giving you a solid attack.
5. Attack with your sword. This is purely an offensive move and offers no real defensive benefits, you're essentially saying I'm ALL IN, high risk high reward.
6. Block with your shield and feign an attack with your sword. This works a lot like blocking and attacking only it's slightly less defense and no offense. The benefit here is that your opponent might SEE that you look like you're going to attack and either turtle up and defend themselves even more, or try to block and parry or block and attack or block with their sword so they can get off another move. But since you're not really attacking, you could get a "free attack" next round if the timing is right.

This is just off the top of my head, and it only explores two guys with swords and shields. I don't consider this boring at all though. I actually consider it refreshing.

 

Oh yeah, sorry about that.

 

I am afraid you are right with that statement. This is basically what I thought after playing R11 and for me it was a very unpleasent insight ...

Anyway, an official statement would definetly help to avoid wrong expectations for the future of this game!

 

Just wanted to add, I also like the skill based systems of UO.

 

I loved the UO system of Leveling. Skill gain systems are awesome! Quest for Glory had that too

I guess cheaters gonna cheat, not much fun tho. I have much fun developing my character and working the skills that are important to the direction of my character. Skill use gain has always seemed more realistic and fun to me...but it's quite rare nowadays in gaming.

 

This is an extreme example...and I'm not advocating this at all. But I wanted to show how easy it would be to stop scripting in a use based system.

Just limit use increase to 3 skills and 3 applications of those skills per 24 hours. There ya go, problem solved. There's no reasons to script that, any sane person could login once a day, use the 3 skills they cared most about and level them up in a short period of time. There's no race to the finish line! It's just a very structured controlled environment where scripting doesn't help anyone.

Again, I'm not saying that's "the answer" but that's how easy this is if you design it correctly.

 

Um no thanks! I hate limited use of skills! ArcheAge does that with their Fun limiting labor system. I'm a die hard crafter and spend many hours crafting to raise skills. I agree with what was said about there being a verification every so often or mini-games.

 

skill system much better then lvl system

why ?
-because you can build unique chars
-because you can have tons of skills to learn see ultima online or mortal online http://www.mortaldata.com/reference/mortal-online-skill-list/
-you could have skillbooks to learn a skill to a specifiv value, which could be rewards for quests. for exemple in mortal there was several npcs who sold special books not for gold but only traded them for rare drops from world bosses. several npc wanted to have heads from several monsters for different book rewards and more. not everything could be bought for gold (except from players)
-some rare books could be only avalible at special places , forcing you to explore the world (with a full loot setup a true adventure) XD
-because you can macro your char and read the forums and look helpful vids during the lvling period , istead of grinding a stupid dungeon over and over again to get lvl 50
i want to macro in my house chat with friends read stuff , and not feel like i get forced to do pve to lvl up my char

 

Lord Baldrith, I specifically said in the beginning that I'm not advocating that system. I'm just using it as an example of how easy it is to solve the cheating problem. I agree that it would not be fun for a variety of reasons, but it does show that there's a baseline that can be used to solve the problem of cheating. We don't have to throw our hands in the air and say "cheaters are always going to cheat so let's not even try to stop them". That's simply not a true statement.

 

Sorry, I misunderstood you I think .

Well I didn't say we shouldn't try to stop cheaters, I just said they gonna cheat...Hopefully there are ways to catch them.

 

They've talked about weapon affinity, perhaps it could have a role.

I think gaining skill by using things is great. We could have a leveling system and combine it with some sort of weapon / gear affinity, you get better in the general skills with levels and also gain affinity with specific items and kind of specialize in those... Maybe too complicated.

That'd probably create some variety in the gear choices too.

 

Just some food for thought here.
They can easily implement a use-progression for the innate skills while maintaining everything else exactly as it is. (If that is what they want).
So to learn how to use fire magic I go to a trainer, the trainer teaches me, lets say, FireArrow, I put that in a combat slot (locked or deck doesn't matter for this excercise), every time I use that FireArrow I get a .0001 progression in one of the innate abilities associated with FireArrow (range, damage, dot, whatever).
If I then go to the expert trainer, and learn, lets say, FireBall. Then I can put that in a combat slot and use it, it will rely on the same innate abilities as the FireArrow does. If those innate abilities are not sufiicient then the effect suffers. (A fireball with no range would be a bad thing for instance).
Sprinkle some preperation and reagents on top as we all love those.

So just because they have skills in trees that we can put into slots doesn't mean they can't easily implement use-progression.

Now the recepy for fixing scripting is diminishing return and combo with trainers, we (I) have discussed that elsewhere repeatedly.
The example I normally use is pro-boxing.
If someone only trains in the gym punching bags over and over they will never be champ.
If someone only trains sparring over and over they will never be champ.
If someone only learns new techniques over and over they will never be champ.
If someone only listen to the trainer over and over they will never be champ.
If someone never goes a match they will never be champ.
But someone who does all of that - they have a chance.
So any system that utilize only one of the above - will be easily exploitable by scripters etc. Hiding in the same bush over and over is a good example of such an exploit. Or shooting the same spell over and over again, would be another.
Scripting that you need to train, use, learn, listen, test and over again is much much harder.

And no such a system doesn't have to be overly complicated either, it could be as simple as the first D&D, you get xp from fighting but only to a cap, then you need to get to a trainer from a level above you, but to get them to do that you need to give them gold or do quests, then you can earn new xp up to a new cap. etc.
Then you can build on that, with programming a diminishing return setup is easy.

 

Just unlock a skill pt every 10 pts in a given skill. So at 50 swords you will have 5 pts to invest in a sword skill tree.

0-100 Range per skill.

So its got some UO aspects 0-100 but with the added bonus of using a skill tree to back your increase in skill. Don't forget some titles to match

UO did add those 2 special moves per weapon for getting to 70 or 90 in a given skill too. Always thought that was a nice addition.

 

I see what you're saying. That makes some sense. But are you basing that on experience gained or use based? If it's use based, how do you calculate how long it takes to get 1 sword? How do you handle scripting?

 

Well, you would have to use a formula that scales with the increase in skill. So 10-20 will gain faster than 80-90. I don't remember the formula's UO used. Plus, when you were at a higher level 90 etc, you had to find monsters at a similar level in skill to gain on. You couldn't just kill millions of rats to reach 100.

Another aspect I liked.

Just like in Blacksmithing. You had to keep attempting to make items 1 tier above your skill level to gain.

 

Lots of turn-based systems give you the option to block and counter-strike. I could point out examples, but that would be off topic. I hate when people judge a mechanic based on how its been done poorly, though.

That said I really don't see how turn-based would make sense in SoTA.

 

Yeah, that sounds almost exactly like UO to me (I haven't played in 15 to 20 years though, so don't beat me up on this). I'd definitely want something better than that. Use based is cool, but scripting is not cool. UO was pretty much the scripting capital of gaming.