I am shocked by the character progression system

This is what I would do. You have 5 attacks per weapon set. Every 20 pts in a skill unlocks a combat move with that weapons.

Swords:

20 - Swing
40 - Thrust (bleed)
60 - Leg Hit (Cripple) etc.

Then on the other side of the UI bar I'd have 5 slots to put passive or active skill from your skill tree. So u go up in the tree and unlock skills to place in those 5 slots. Similar to GW2 , but not as easy to unlock the skills.

So if you reach 100 in swords u would have 10 pts to go up in the trees , which might give u a mix of passive and active skill u could use , but u can only select 5 depending on your playstyle.

Thats what I would do. Keep it simple but add in some choice.

 

1. You are only able to gain fighting skill if you fight against creatures that have a similar skill level (+/-10) you do.
2. Progression is based on how high your actual skill is. Between 0-30 you have a 100% chance to gain skill during a succesful skill use, this chance is dropping with increased skill for example 30-60 50% chance, 60-80 30% chance, 80-90 20% chance, 90-100 10% chance.

Whats your point? Do you really think a level-based character progression system will avoid scripting?

Scripting is not a valid argument against a use-based progression system! Besides that, there are a plenty of suggestions in this thread already to deal with it.

I would suggest something similar to that. But the ingame changes look like they already decided which direction to go ... xp-bar, xp-gain, level-up's, skill-points ...

To my mind ... this is definitely not looking like they are gonna head towards a use-based progression system.

 

I think that's a pretty good idea. But there are a lot of people that want to gain points for doing non-combat related tasks. Plus this is a use system right? So why would I go fight creatures if I was trying to increase my cooking skill?

My point would be that if you create a system where people feel like they need to script because the system is so freaking boring by playing it as intended, then you've made a bad system. It also creates three tiers of players. 1) Players that don't script and are at a disadvantage. 2) Players that do script and gain an advantage because they don't get caught. 3) Players that gain an advantage by scripting but get caught and banned.

That's not an environment that you DESIGN for. You don't design systems where that's your end goal.

I disagree, see UO. I also haven't read anything yet that would fix scripting in UO. I'm FOR a use based system though, so don't be so defensive with me. I'm just looking for a solution that doesn't involve putting our heads in the sand.

 

1. You are only able to gain cooking skill if you cook stuff that need a similar skill level (+/-10) you do.
2. Progression is based on how high your actual skill is. Between 0-30 you have a 100% chance to gain skill during a succesful cooking skill use, this chance is dropping with increased skill for example 30-60 50% chance, 60-80 30% chance, 80-90 20% chance, 90-100 10% chance.

It is absolutly the same for a level-based progression system. I still can't see your point here ...

Example 1:

Example 2:

 

I like this as a solution, so long as the mini-games are random and tricky enough that scripting becomes difficult.

 

Wasn't a concern with the use system that it made skill advancement more grindy too?

 

Tell me how this system would work for a single player experience....players will just have to go wack down trees by themselves for hours for progression?

 

This is why the original ultimas worked...there was no PvP type of issues to worry about. It's a side effect of mmorpg

 

That's true. When you take player interaction out of the equation, all kinds of things get easier.

 

And thus why SotA starts with an inherent flaw. It tries to please both genres. When you casted earthquake in the original ultimas it was a friggin earthquake...it dealt lots of damage and killed lots of enemies. A fireball was to reckoned. The spells had major effect. With the mmorpg issues in the mix, effects need to be toned down for "fairness" and balance to assure a proper PvP experience...and this is fine, as obviously lots of people are into that kind of play but it does change the dynamics of skills and magic effect for balance sake

 

Do you want to say that it is a bad single player experience if you have to actually cut down trees to raise your woodcutting skill?

But it is a good single player experience if you have to grind golbins over and over again, so you can raise your woodcutting skill from the skill points you earn?

I am afraid I don't get your point ...

 

I'm afraid many of you old UO players just don't get what we who are interested in the single player side want.

Fighting goblins, chopping trees etc shouldn't be a grind experience. That's a whole wrong mentality to have when designing a game....its a grind in MMO's because it is a time sink...they need time sinks to keep players playing. I'm not against skill based progression or skill point...I am against mindless grinding that seems to keep so many happy.

 

I have argued this same point in the past....having to cator to balance for pvp will ruin other parts.

 

Actually it does not keep people happy ...

 

I am not sure if you entirely understand what this thread is about. I was arguing with the level-based-progression-system that is in place now. I did not mention "grind" anywhere, nevertheless I can not see why this level-based-progression-system should be less "grindy" than a use-based-progression-system. First you start arguing that a use-based-progression-system can not work in a single-player game, but a level-based-progression-system can work and now you start arguing that a level-based-progression-system is less grindy? *confused*

A woodcutter has to cut wood to gain woodcutting skill ...
A fishermen has to fish to gain fishing skill ...
A tamer has to tame animals to gain tame skill ...
A mage has to cast spells to gain magery skill ...
A swordsmen has to slash something to gain sword skill ...
A ...

How is this in any way connected to PvP/PvM?

Sorry, but it seems you just throw in stuff that is not even connected to the topic and does not make sense at all ...

 

Haven't played, but if it's like OP says, i definetly agree. I am quite full of those typical level based games. Liked UO skill system, no levels.

 

Really? You took a response to another qoute and converted it to the other argument to make it look like I said that cutting wood etc was impacted by pvp? The first part I can sort of get what you are trying to say....but the second looks like you are trying to be to intentionally misconstrue what I said.

Either can be grindy you are right, I'm against both being grindy...I guess that didn't come off as clear as I wanted.

 

Excuse me please! I beg your pardon! Just read your post progression again and you might realize that my "intentional misconstruction" is not to far-fetched ...

Can we come back to topic please? Level-based-progression-system vs. use-based-progression-system.

Both of the points you made (1. "Can not work in single-player." and 2. "It is more grindy.") are not valid in this context.

 

All these sound ok for fighters but would kill a mage build.

As a fighter I am probably going to pick one class of weapon and stick to it, there is little reason to go with more than one but as a mage I might want specific spells not a whole tree, so if I was a summoner I would want to try to get as many of the summoning spells as I can, or I might want 1 or 2 from the healing and then a couple from death etc. If you have a level system then that works but if you have "fire arrow make fire spells better" system then you kill the ability for people to make a decent mage build.

Sorry I know its not "old school UO" but I am in favour of a level system with skill points you allocate as you see fit. They have already split off crafting so that's separate and maybe a skill system would work better for crafting but for combat skills? no

 

yes you are right and yoiu obviously gave itmore thoughts than I did but my point is the feel of the game will probably be the same as any other MMO I hope Im wrong