Dismiss Notice
This Section is READ ONLY - All Posts Are Archived

I am shocked by the character progression system

Discussion in 'Release 11 Feedback' started by robatzen, Oct 28, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. AndiZ275

    AndiZ275 Avatar

    Messages:
    466
    Likes Received:
    650
    Trophy Points:
    55
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Franconia, Germany
    I'd like to see a skill system, where you get skill points for specific deeds up to a maximum of skill points (lets say 200 as an example). With such a system there could be many ways to reach the maximum amount of skill points, which would help characters that don't like to fight or only want to PvP, etc.

    Skill points got be gotten (only once) through:

    First Complete Armor Set crafted
    after killing the first 50 orcs, first dragons
    first PvP kill, 50s PvP kill, etc.
    killing x amount of enemies with a specific weapon type
    destroying your weapon/armor through excessive use
    first successful bounty mission
    killed an enemy player with a dagger, hand to hand, etc.
    winning a tournament
    killing a dungeon boss monster
    capture a castle/control point/city, etc. and hold for x amount of time
    defend a castle/control point/city, etc. and hold for x amount of time
    first successful escort mission
    first successful group mission
    for completing specific quests (skill points get rewarded only once of course)
    for successful tradesmanship (sold x amount of stuff to other players)
    for crafting, mining,... achievements
    even for social stuff (buying a house, joining a guild, training a pet, learning an instrument, marrying, etc.)
    discovering strange places
    looting stuff you crafted from monsters far away
    finding rare stuff (flowers, decorations, etc.)
    first travel with a boat
    completing quests without violence
    completing quests with brute force

    This would allow many different ways to reach the maximum amount of points, wouldn't penalize specific player types and would be difficult to script, since you get the rewarded skill points only once. A problem with this system could be, that it's too easy getting the maximum points, when you are looking for the easiest skill points. But this could be addressed by not making it a tedious grind to get those points, but something you get on the way by naturally doing stuff... And each skill point could be connected to an achievement in your character biography...

    I'm not a big fan of XP-points and level progression, but I like being rewarded for doing stuff and getting more and more experienced through it...

    Cheers,
    Andreas
     
  2. Drocis the Devious

    Drocis the Devious Avatar

    Messages:
    18,188
    Likes Received:
    35,440
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male

    It's not that I don't believe you. If those were my two options I'd pick Skill Based too. I don't understand why you think I'm not in support of a skill based system.
     
  3. Duke William of Serenite

    Duke William of Serenite Avatar

    Messages:
    1,993
    Likes Received:
    4,429
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Location:
    Grunvald


    I agreaa but its a little late in the game to start a fire for this. You should have been here back in May 2013.
     
    robatzen likes this.
  4. robatzen

    robatzen Avatar

    Messages:
    57
    Likes Received:
    125
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    WBB posing in neon cloth ...
    I must have completely missed that. Did they really announce the introduction of a level based progression system so early? :(
    Is there any official information about that? Maybe you could provide some links, I would really appreciate that!
     
  5. Espada

    Espada Avatar

    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    312
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    America (North, Central & South)
    We are still in pre-alpha and not everything is set in stone. Even the combat system as we know it could be changed if needed be (the only constant is change).
    The points brought up here have validity and are very welcome. I am personally in agreement with several points mentioned here (specially regarding the mastery of skills by action leveling and not by overall character level). Please keep up with the discussion.
     
  6. Lum the Mad

    Lum the Mad Developer Emeritus Dev Emeritus

    Messages:
    2,488
    Likes Received:
    12,987
    Trophy Points:
    190

    Ironically, I was responsible for implementing script detection in Aion in the US.

    :)

    (there were scripts we could detect and scripts we couldn't, it was a never-ending battle that wasn't helped by the dev team being on another continent)
     
  7. E n v y

    E n v y Avatar

    Messages:
    4,641
    Likes Received:
    12,961
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    England
  8. Lum the Mad

    Lum the Mad Developer Emeritus Dev Emeritus

    Messages:
    2,488
    Likes Received:
    12,987
    Trophy Points:
    190
    10-1 odds it was an Autoit bot derivative... most of the ones that were sold were. And they were pretty trivial to detect.
     
    Margard and Duke NRaas like this.
  9. E n v y

    E n v y Avatar

    Messages:
    4,641
    Likes Received:
    12,961
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    England

    Note to self: Never admit to scripting again....I have now flagged myself for being watched 24/7 in Shroud ;)
     
  10. Violation Clauth

    Violation Clauth Avatar

    Messages:
    3,247
    Likes Received:
    7,594
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm one of the guys that likes to find botters, find out how they work, and report them to epic devs like Lum who can find out how to detect and block them.

    Bots create an uneven playing field. Macros do not. Macro is okay, bot is not. GG.

    YUP! but, most don't have to admit to it... I've been finding and reporting them since the earlier days of UO T2A ;)
     
  11. E n v y

    E n v y Avatar

    Messages:
    4,641
    Likes Received:
    12,961
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    England

    Spoil sport! ;)
     
    Duke NRaas and Duke Violation like this.
  12. marcelo

    marcelo Avatar

    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brasil
    i don't think they will be changing the exp system for the skill based one...RG talked a lot about this back when the game was in kickstarter, watch the old portalarium videos and you will see his explanation of why use based system is not viable.... and i agree with him, repeating an action over and over can be dull and boring... i like the exp system with no classes better, its less dull and you can mold your character just like back in the days...

    i loved UO just like you guys, but that feeling we had back in the days is over... its never coming back, ultima online will always be the best game i've ever played, the game that most messed with my senses.... but its past guys, you should move forward.... stop whining and making a fuss because this game wont be ultima online with better graphics... this is something new, but with a taste from the past...

    for me exp system is the way to go... no more macroing at home with a hired warrior to gm 7x in two days.... no more 8x8 cheat to raise magical resisting or vet.... im all in favor to encourage players to raise their character on their own.... ultima didnt had so mutch macro only because of easyUO.... in wow for example, most ppl leveled their character on their own, but most macroed fishing because it was a pain to level....

    i really enjoyed leveling, without macroing or botting, my character on a use based system, specially my mage/tamer and my miner, but if this exp system means less ppl macroing, im all in favor...
     
    Robert_Reise and robatzen like this.
  13. Drocis the Devious

    Drocis the Devious Avatar

    Messages:
    18,188
    Likes Received:
    35,440
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male

    That's kind of a fine line. Creating some macros takes very little technical skill. But there's a significant number of people that still lack that skill or awareness. There are many people that might not even think the concept of using a macro is even a reality. So doesn't that create an uneven playing field, those with the skill and knowledge verses those without?

    The reason I ask is because I never use macros or scripting or 3rd party programs of any kind. I don't even own a gaming mouse. And while I'm not suggesting that we go on a witch hunt for people with gaming mice, I am suggesting that minor scripting that automates process that are intended to be performed manually is very close to the thing you're calling a bot.
     
    Joviex, Vyrin and marcelo like this.
  14. marcelo

    marcelo Avatar

    Messages:
    30
    Likes Received:
    12
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Brasil

    ultima online got boring with UOA, i could beat anyone on pvp with my super combo with zero delayed targetting by sedding target to server on a loop before target cursor appears, it wouldnt even show on my screen.... exp + poison, exp + fb.... healing, potting no one could beat my macro.... i could combo faster than anyone, it was unfair and i got bored eventually.

    and don't get me started on the bots, it was easy uo who taught me how to program... i did it because everyone did it too, and i couldnt keep up with my friends and foes when i didnt do it...
     
  15. Violation Clauth

    Violation Clauth Avatar

    Messages:
    3,247
    Likes Received:
    7,594
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    which is why cooldowns and combat has changed from 15 years ago :)
     
  16. E n v y

    E n v y Avatar

    Messages:
    4,641
    Likes Received:
    12,961
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    England
    When it come down to scripting I kind of put it into 2 camps:

    - Commercial gain (gold farming to sell etc)
    - Personal gain (mainly character advancement)

    I'l be honest when it comes to people who script for their own purposes, I kind of blame game design and not making it fun to progress in the game. I mean a player may want to advance.....but finds grinding monsters mind numbing, at which point what's the difference between a bot and a zombie sitting behind a keyboard button bashing (the intelligent money is probably leaning towards the bot).
     
  17. Drocis the Devious

    Drocis the Devious Avatar

    Messages:
    18,188
    Likes Received:
    35,440
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male

    Yeah, so two things. One, that's really impressive that you know how to do that. I wish I knew how to do that...just so I could make more money at my job. :)

    But also, this is the very reason I don't understand why our combat system is designed the way it is. It seems like we'd want to design the ability to script that kind of thing right out of the equation so that everyone's playing on the same base field of play. I can tell you that the moment I start to see that going on in this game I'm done with PVP. I'll go be a merchant somewhere and roleplay and laugh at everyone that says "I have skill in pvp".

    The more I think about this the more I think I better get my merchant hat ready. :)
     
    Vyrin and marcelo like this.
  18. E n v y

    E n v y Avatar

    Messages:
    4,641
    Likes Received:
    12,961
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    England


    Would loved to have seen this. I my 15+ years of PvPing in UO, I have never found anyone who was unbeatable regardless what hacks they use.
     
    Duke Violation likes this.
  19. Drocis the Devious

    Drocis the Devious Avatar

    Messages:
    18,188
    Likes Received:
    35,440
    Trophy Points:
    153
    Gender:
    Male

    That's a GREAT response to the importantance of game design. But it's wrapped in a rationalization sandwich. People can't get away with saying that someone else's mistake made them be a worse person. There's no one forcing people to cheat the system, they can always find something else to do. I'm already slowly putting on my merchant clothes, for example.
     
  20. E n v y

    E n v y Avatar

    Messages:
    4,641
    Likes Received:
    12,961
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    England
    I know what you mean, but as I say if you end up having to do something that you may have done 10,000 times before and is fairly uninteresting.....players simply look for short cuts. That is the main reason why people tend to script for personal gain.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.