Thief class request

really love to see stealing skill for pvp

 

https://www.shroudoftheavatar.com/f...aps-lockpicking-backstab-where-are-you.14007/

I believe the Lunar skill set is just for Rogue's and Thieves?
However, we definitely need Rogue-type actions outside of combat as well, trap setting PRIOR to combat, Scouting (allowing the Rogue to scan rooms for secret walls, doors and traps) picking locks on doors and chests, these are the minimal requirements required in any rpg.

Tbh, I am a little shocked that so many new 'rpg's are moving towards this 'all things to all men' mode of game development whereby the player character can use any weapon, skill or spell rather than employ dedicated classes. It is so much fun working towards your class higher levels that I am surprised more fans haven't complained.....

 

Well, I do not like dedicated classes, it is so limiting. I mean people usually gravitate to one class or another, but it is their actions what defines them rather then their skills imho.

 

Thieves should have skills that can do all that stuff without magic. Why should a rogue be required to cast Lunar magic spells? I suppose they can learn lunar magic, but it would be nice to have a true rogue character, not a hybrid magic-user/rogue.

 

Yes i would have to agree the availability of magic should be only to the caster type classes not the rogue type such as thief. Maybe in PvP matches make some temporary magic pots
available that respawn every few minutes that can be collected only by thieves, thus when picked up by thief in pvp combat will benefit the entire party that thief is in, like maybe
everyone's health levels are increased to maximum, or some other beneficial buff. Make interesting combat for the thieves on each team and the other members of party trying to protect the thief as he/she runs to pick up the pot.

 

On thieving: I'd say that the game think beyond just stealth and stealing if this is consider. Also throw bard-like skills into the mix so that a thief can have a little more pizzazz than just another dual wielding, light armor player who has a stealing ability.

 

Right now, everything, every skill aside from crafting is focused on combat. This is a bit disappointing and somehow I get the impression that it is made out of some kind of Unity-Basic-MMORPG-kit. But there should be MUCH more to an RPG than just combat and crafting (and housing). I think a game that just focuses on those skills is severly lacking and - sad to say it - dumbed down

Thieving skills like stealing, lockpicking and stealth should be a big part of an RPG and even bard skills are important for the depth of an RPG - but those things are not that important in an MMORPG with focus on fast paced PvP combat...

 

caution the scribblings below might have some pull

Thieves in game ... why not .... with all those mansions and keeps and rare items to stash
But this calls for perma death in game and character augments as thieves get caught they get hanged... loose a finger or two or an arm... or an eye or get burn marks or whiping slashes on their backs and clothing -armor ... characters in game should also show the wear and tear of your playing style , right ? Evil should meet a short end very fast... one way ticket to the grave... and graves should pile up in the grave yards very fast ... eventually if there is a large income of new graves


hmmm ( player duties to sort the grave yard or the endless crypts underground )
floodings and cave-ins and undead pillaging for corpses reset it once a while

criminals just get berried while good players get gravestones and statues...
And back to how to become undead ? undead as playable race ?? oh yeah ^_^
Undead Lords ... Knights and pet dragons i know im probably all wrong about it ... but nice ideas ... so when a player dies ... player gets a chance to play as undead... until killed again then its time to restart and make a new character ... is this possible for this game ?
Undead could also come back to life through some quest - magic while visiting towns they should come disguised or be killed on spot by guards and other players ^_^ lalala need more coffeee <3

 

so epic

 

backpack snooping and item stealing ultima online style would be grand

 

Skill tree for thieves that could work

Sneak
Hide (there has to be shrubbery near you, or shadows and you cannot hide in open fields etc..)
Back stab (10x damage with one handed bladed weapon ONLY)

pickpocket
stunning blow (hand strike or Sword.dagger hilt)
poisoning (adding poison to your one handed blade weapon, arrow or spear)

Find trap - traps will glow when you near them
Disarm trap - you can disarm after finding a trap
All of these traps could correspond with the spells we have already
Poison trap
Ice trap
Fire trap
Shocking trap

 

"Please Do Not Read This Player's Posts or We Will Not Have a Game Like Every Other Game!"

"How dare he challenge us to place such high risk vs reward?"
Such ideas are poisonous and damaging to the established laws of EA & Origin Gaming. This heretic of the gaming industry will surly be heading to the stocks or gallows if any of his ideas are implemented because he wishes for a more challenging game with a well known tragic end to his burglarizing escapades and thieving frolics.

"How dare he challenge us?"
Because he is up to the challenge that others would wish to soften with the pillow of full resurrection...
All of his ideas here are very ~Time Lord~ approved !
Greed is not what the thief has, it's what the player has that they wish to keep from sharing...
~Time Lord~

 

Majoria70, I just knew there was something special about you. You and I have the "thief" in mind (I have that good warm feeling going). THIS one subject is why I am looking at SotA. This one subject. I looked through other games since UO trying to find a REAL thief class and not just another fighter type with fancy "rogue type" fighting moves and really I have come up unsatisfied. If SotA does not have a satisfying thief class I will probably keep looking else where and coming from Garriott and UO THIS would be sad.

I believe you are correct and stealing should be allowed in some form and what I believe I am seeing is in this game currently is Felluca and Trammel being placed on the same server in the form of "consensual PvP" (that makes me feel dirty somehow)flags on players. When I really think about it, these PvP flags should mark a person PvP BUT it would mean everything PvP and not just fighting. With that said I will move on.

You commented on pick pockets in my opinion is spot on. It should be something small. I am not in favor of looting a player blind of everything UNLESS it is realistic to do so. Can I "lift" a UO 1000 gold piece pile of gold off of someone and they not notice? NO. Not unless they were drunk and passed out and then its not pick pocketing any longer. Its just looting and then there should be a chance for others to see and call for the authorities.
Anyway, based on the NPC model we would look at social status of the NPC and then have a certain random list of things they may have that are obtainable by the thief. Peasants would have little money and socks, lint, handkerchiefs (used or not) etc. While nobles would have gold, jewelry, pocket watches and possibly lint. Being able to Pickpocket adventurers would yield the same except it is whatever they carry that is small. I would expect that if players choose PvP flags then they are tempered enough to handle the encounter good or bad AND PvP players are more likely to be more game savvy on what to carry with them and what to keep at home.
This skill is the most sensitive skill that people will talk about concerning thieves.

The Reveal skill. Many games have it and I think that we should have it here as well but I think reveal is something that all players should have based on the intelligence score and something that we need not spend points on. At a mundane level this should work for us and even if we were to try to reveal someone that was invisible and any greater magic of concealment than that would take magic to reveal. I hate spending skill points on something that we get for free in real life.

Your ideas on a thief getting caught are great. If he/she gets caught then they could:

1. Duel The outcome goes as far as it goes. Getting smacked around, first blood or death. Whatever satisfaction the Player or NPC require or the authorities are called then it is ......
2. Jail If the thief runs and gets away the name of the player is known and can be turned into the authorities by player or NPC. In this case when a thief robs someone a flag is placed on the thief (game mechanics) and for a certain amount of time and can be hunted by the authorities or Player Bounty Hunters. The thief in question must be caught in a certain amount of time or they get away with their crime.
3. Penance This would be the interesting quest starter that could be an avenue to thief style quests. Of course there is the mundane quest that would be a nuisance to the thief and then other quests that could get epic for the thief.
1. The Victim forgives you. Could happen.
2. The gathering quest. Victim: "Thief I should have you thrown in prison but if you want to stay out of the clink YOU WILL go fetch me X." Could be anything mundane. Penance payed.
3. The more complex quest: The NPC wants items retrieved from monsters, undead lords, living nobles etc. If you don't accept or fail in certain amount of time the thief gets turned in to the authorities. Of course they may send you on the quest thinking you are going to die. Heh.. Prove them wrong.

I would go on but the penalty system is something I prefer BUT not just a punishment alone but a quest starter for thieves. If a thief ends up in prison who knows what information he could obtain from the other inmates or guards. Have you been inside Owls Head prison yet? Remember its a prisoners primary duty to escape a prison. The military says that anyway. Must be good advice for a thief.
If a player decides to escape he/she is on the run and their criminal flag just gets extended until the appropriate jail time is served or they could wait it out in jail and be free at some point in the future. This could give you time to hone your knitting skill.

Another scenario for a quest starter is say your thief "lifts" a used handkerchief with monogram from some person you don't quite remember cause you had a few drinks and things were blurry and your crime was a crime of opportunity not to be passed up and you end up with this used monogrammed handkerchief and in a routine stop by the guards because they do that because you are a thief and have a reputation...hehe... they find this used monogrammed handkerchief of a noble who has been robbed or killed and dammit you have it now. "Why do bad things always happen to me" is what you think to yourself AGAIN. That very bad embarrassed warm feeling comes upon you. One you have known in the past. That feeling you get when you get...CAUGHT! Heh heh. This is your quest starter. In front of the magistrate who is/was fond of the noble in question and after a lashing or twenty go to the prison. A deep dark prison where people don't leave from and life is bleak. Only then after talking with prisoners about your experiences do you start getting information about what really happened and now its YOUR job to get you out of prison. A very deep and dark prison and get yourself vindicated of a crime you did not commit.
This is good. I wonder if I can write scenarios for Portalarium?
Anyway a justice system with prisons and everything. Not just getting guard whapped like UO. Which if I remember right was a very scary and abrupt death. Those guards could deal out a death sentence in an arse kicking flash.

To wrap this up. I want a real thief with a penalty system.

Pick Pocketses (Those filthy pocketses) Just think about "lifting" some freshly made fishing stink bait off of a fisherman. Try to explain yourself out of that one. "Uhm I'm so sorry sir I seem to have fallin' into your pocketses". Its off to jail AGAIN.
Hide in Shadows
Climb Walls (When appropriate) I would like to be able to climb shear surfaces with a chance of failure. I'm not expecting to be able to climb smooth marble walls. Then a grappling hook and rope would come in handy, thrown or shot out of some steampunkish contraption.
Move Silently
Find and remove traps
open locks
detect noise

All the thief skills and spells to go along with it. If I remember the spells in UO there was one that helped a thief out and it was called "In Cognito". The spell that gave you a disguise for a short time. Enough time for them to run by you. That would be fun or to use the cooking/alchemy skill to make a disguise kit. Wait....Interesting.....


Cooking/Alchemy to make the disguise kit you keep it in your pack and when used takes so much time to apply and you are someone else for a time. You better be good at roleplaying and dishing out a line of bs to fool people. That sounds fun.

Invisibility would be another great spell for a thief.

This is a must. Distraction skill/spell. In either case a component is needed. A coin, dirt clod or whatever. When a thief enters a home, business, dungeon etc he/she will probably need to distract NPCs of whatever variety to get them to follow a distracting sound so a thief can do his/her work. An example would be... Majoria70 enters a nobles home. He's a bad noble with a bad wife who treats the people poorly and he needs to be humbled terribly and Majoria70 needs to fulfill that thief like "need" which is burglary. Majoria70 enters the premises and gets to the large chest that all of the town knows has item X that is coveted by many but there is a problem. There is a couple of guards there. So Majoria70 needs to be able to distract them so they will leave the room so she can get at the chest. The skill would be as we all have seen in movies is to throw a coin or rock into another area to get them to investigate other movies like Star Wars show a Jedi using the force to make a noise that got some storm troopers to look in another direction. This is something needed by Thieves.


I'm going to stop now or I shall ramble all day.

 

Here is another idea to complicate a thieves life.

Example,

Majoria70 "Liberates" and object from someones possession. She gets away with it cleanly but the previous owner of said object reports the "Liberation" to the authorities and the word is sent out to all the business owners in town to keep an eye out for said "Liberated" object. If Majoria70 sells the object too soon in town she could then get turned in to the authorities.... AGAIN and the hunt for her would start up. Back to the clink for Majoria70.

The object in this case would get a stolen tag (which has a timer) on it and when sold would register the game to start the hunt for said thief. So a thief needs to wait a certain amount of time before selling it or sell to a person who will not (most likely) turn them in like a "fence" of some kind.

So thieves will have to be cunning or get caught. I really don't think it should be easy for thieves to get away with their crimes in any fashion and I think thieves should be able to get good if not great rewards in the right circumstances.

 

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Oh you are too funny, imagine majoria being a thief lol. Thank you so much for bringing this post back. I really hadn't thought to be a thief at all truly but I did so invision having one in game. I was truly disappointed this thread did not go anywhere and that my ideas weren't heard at all. Perhaps it was too early in development. I believe I also was disappointed that we couldn't have a fun skill, sometimes it seems things have to be balanced and serious. I thought perhaps this skill and also the skills needed to be a thief could be a lot about fun and embelished on as you and I have commented on. So I do wish for you to get your thief in game. You too have great ideas. This would be another aspect of the special in this game

 

The subject of PvP in any sense is debated by many.

Some feel its ok to repeat kill someone but to be stolen from is something they don't want. I think if you have one you should have both concerning combat or theft. To have combat and not theft makes me feel like I'm being forced to play an elitist game. Where suddenly the combat PvPers have thin skin.

If you have one you should have both. Thats just my opinion.

Back to the subject of thieving and getting good if not great rewards. I played Lord of the Rings Online for a couple of years. Their Burglar class is just ok. You cannot steal from players which was ok but you could steal from monsters but the rewards were not as good as they should have been. Many times people went into boss monster quests and actually picked the pocket of boss monster and in all cases yielded moderate things. In the case of the big bosses picking pockets or burglarizing their dungeons I would like the opportunity to get some great loot. I believe this is the thief's due just like any fighter performing his duties as a fighter. This is just two different ways of life doing what they do and getting their just rewards. Don't sell the rogue short as not deserving because he does not hack away at the monsters all the way through the dungeon. Sneaking patiently waiting for the right moment until its safe to move or pick the lock to the chest and get the reward is as tough sometimes as wading through and hacking down monsters. I think its actually more exciting than being in a group hacking down monsters. I can just hear the fighter side of the debate from years past.

 

yes I do hear you. For my point I was not exactly referring to the thief skill as being necessarily PVP only, perhaps PVP aspects also but I was playing around with also having the minor,
a bit harmles, fun type of thief who pillages a few coins from the unsuspecting here and there.

 

Except that's not a thief. That's a spy at best. But even spy's need some lockpicking and other basic thief skills.

 

Thieves. No.

Rogues. Yes.

Cheers.

 

I said this in the other thief thread...

I have to say I agree about the disarm traps and picking locks etc. Keep in mind they said stuff about adding skills after the release of the actual game. So if some skills aren't developed for the initial release it doesn't mean they will never be added.

One thing I do not want to see is the "UO theif" that could disarm you and steal your weapon. That's just plain unrealistic and a stupid game mechanic. The UO thief was like a pesty gnat that was always in your face at banks etc. ***Thieves shouldn't be noticed at all*** I don't want to have a stealing skill in the game when you know that somebody is probably using it on you. It is better they never add a stealing skill because we will always be expecting the guy that just walked up next to you to be using it. You cannot pick pocket a person who is holding or guarding their pockets.

GOOD STEALING SKILL:
Although I wouldn't be opposed to having a pick pocket skill that can lift a small amount of gold from a person but it could only be used in a crowded area on the move. That's how most pickpockets work. You are at an airport or a train station and as people start moving and crowding together they swipe your wallet... (always keep your wallet in a front pocket, and keep purses closed and held closely! lol)