What is the line between PvP and Griefing?

Discussion in 'PvP Gameplay' started by Anendrue, Feb 9, 2015.

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  1. Spoon

    Spoon Avatar

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    Uhm, are we not conflating the issues?

    We want more fun and rewarding gameplay for all aspects that we market the game to.
    So we want as fun and rewarding PvP as possible as well.

    One thing that is restricting fun is limitless spawn camping in a single spot.

    I liked the idea of multiple and random entry points.

    I liked the idea of multiple and random rez points.

    I like the idea of Rez at the ghost spot for PvP scenes, but if you do with a longer death penalty to give the hunters some reward/incentive to seek and find. (So you can float inwards to find a safe spot to Rez in to join the fray again.)

    I loved the idea of a prep area but that is really exploitable so too much effort.

    I really loved the old idea (not mentioned here) of heals and repair giving diminishing returns to health and durability. So that the avatars need to alternate away from danger to rest and recuperate fully. Which would affect both PvP and PvE camping.

    One thing that is part of the fun and rewarding PvP aspects are teaming up, using the system to its fullest, and a dose of in your face type of action.
    We do not want to remove those aspects.
     
  2. A Ghost

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    Agreed, Spoon. And Thermo.

    What gets me is that we (the old UO community) solved this. At least partially. It was called the Bounty System. It wasn't perfect, but it did offset the cost of the resources spent to counter-grief. And, more importantly, it communicated to new members of the community that actions have consequences.

    I just don't understand why the wheel needs to be reinvented here... That's my $.02.
     
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  3. Anendrue

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    It could work here too.

    The point of my OP is to get Portalarium to acknowledge they goofed up here and correct it. Make PvP playable in a way that encourages people to embrace the challenge, instead of driving them away from competition. If that means the few no holds bar PvP people do not get their way so be it. Because at the same time those who only want RP/PvE will also not get their way. There must be a middle ground of compromise. Those who refuse to compromise on this issue only do damage and harm to the game as a whole.
     
  4. Curt

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    Not a pvp:er myself i would suggest that each pvp place had at least 2 instances and when you get killed you swap to the other, would make it way harder for someone to kill another repeatadly
     
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  5. Rufus D`Asperdi

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    <does the happy dance of I-don't-have-to-deal-with-this-ever-because-PvP-is-and-forever-will-be-consensual>
     
  6. Innessa Lelania

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    There is most certainly a line between PvPing and Griefing.

    People who like to grief are generally the people who state that there is no line between the two.....
     
  7. Noctiflora

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    Here I am!! *waves*
    Here's my definition of the line between. :)

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. E n v y

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    Hey.....if that sandcastle is being built in a PvP zone.....i'm putting my foot straight through it! They chose to be there.
     
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  9. Bow Vale

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    I think all PvP games need certain guilds or persons that are feared throughout the lands. Tales told of their horrible deeds, scaring the young and even the brave. I am hoping SotA is no exception.
    Unfortunately we are not quite there yet, and i think we will have to make do with Envy and his merry band of sandcastle stompers for a duration yet. :p
     
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  10. redfish

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    Just don't get caught by your parents or they'll punish you.
     
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  11. Innessa Lelania

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    Some of the many methods of griefing according to Wikipedia :


    Methods of griefing differ from game to game. What might be considered griefing in one area of a game may even be an intended function or mechanic in another area. Common methods may include but are not limited to:

    Intentional friendly fire or deliberately performing actions detrimental to team members' game performance, including wasting key game elements, colluding with the opposition, and giving false information.
    Actions undertaken to waste other players' time. For example, when losing in a turn-based game, a player may play as slowly as possible. In other games, they may hide from the enemy when there is no tactical benefit in doing so.
    Impersonation of server administrators or other players through similar screen names.
    Any method of reversing another player's progress, such as destroying or modifying other players' creations in sandbox games like Minecraft and Terraria.
    Faking extreme incompetence with the intent of hurting teammates.[6]
    Written or verbal insults, including false accusations of cheating or griefing. Often directed at the server administrator.
    Purposeful violation of server policies.
    Kill stealing, denying another player the pleasure or gain of killing a target that should have been theirs.
    Spamming a voice or text chat channel to inconvenience, annoy, or harass other players.
    Uploading offensive or explicit images to profile pictures or to game skins.
    Camping at a corpse or spawn area to repeatedly kill players as they resurrect, to prevent them from being able to play, when this behavior is not intentionally permitted.
    Acting out-of-character in a role-play setting to disrupt the serious gameplay of others.
    Luring many monsters or one big one to chase the griefer, before moving to where other players are "kiting" (attacking monsters from a safe distance). The line of monsters in pursuit looks like a train, and hence this is sometimes called "training".[7]
    Blocking another player's way so they cannot move to or from a particular area, or access an in-game resource (such as a non-player character).
    Deliberately blocking shots from a player's own team or blocking a player's view by standing in front of them so they can not damage the enemy.
    Intentionally attempting to crash a server, in order to cause interference among players.
    Intentionally using glitches or exploits to halt the progress of a Co-op or Multiplayer game (such as destroying or blocking off access to items without which other players cannot finish the game).
    "Aggroing", i.e. baiting large groups of enemies or very strong enemies into attacking players who are not prepared to battle those enemies.
    Abusing an in-game "Spectator Mode" to freely fly around the map and give information to allies, such as item spawns, enemy positions, and other information that the ally wouldn't have been able to know on his own. Some games block spectators from chatting with teammates, but this can be circumvented using an external chat program.
    Intentionally lagging a server through various means, such as spawning huge amounts of resource-demanding objects in Second Life.
    Trapping teammates in inescapable locations by use of physics props, special abilities, or in the case of Team Fortress 2, using teleporters to teleport teammates into inescapable locations.
    Constantly pausing the game or lowering game speed down to the slowest one, in the hopes that the winning player will simply give up in frustration and quit, instead of finishing the game and defeating them.​
    X
     
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  12. Innessa Lelania

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    Let me try to think of a scenario where this is a problem....hmmm.... oh wait I just thought of one!

    Totally made up scenario :
    Assume there was a game where devs put rare hats in PvP only zones, with the intention of forcing non PvP people to enter them to get said hats. If they refuse to go in, they will lose out on a rare item that could be worth millions one day.

    Lets hope game makers dont make a game like that.....oh wait....ooops....dang.....
     
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  13. DavenRock

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    PvP - going to a pvp zone and fighting, or being open pvp and being fought against.

    Greifing - killing lvl 5's as they enter the pvp zone, and then killing them again once their ressurected, and then killing them again, and again, and again. Even though the attacked has no intention of pvping, they just want the hat. It is easily avoided by going SPO.
     
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  14. Ristra

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    There is no line. It's a clearly defined wall.

    Intent.

    You can claim someone griefed you all day. You would be wrong if they never intended to cause grief. Someone can attempt to grief and fail horrible and still be a griefer. An unsuccessful griefer is still a griefer.

    The problem is when people make up their own rules and label people griefers based on them not following those rules.
     
  15. Noctiflora

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    Here I am!! *waves*
    Granted, by entering a pvp zone you essentially are consenting to pvp, but I have to admit that even though we currently have a way to avoid it via SPO, in my very biased and personal opinion, I think it was a pretty low & cheesy tactic to put something like this quest in a pvp zone.

    I can't remember for sure, but it seems to me I remember reading somewhere (or hearing in an interview), that we would not be able to go into pvp zones in SPO after release because of their intentions of having more abundant resources in those zones. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. If that is indeed the case, then putting quests for things like the hat in a pvp zone becomes even more cheesy.

    RG's comments on having quests to entice non-pvps to enter those zones didn't say it would be for rare items and collectibles (that I can recall) but rather gave the impression it would be for normal type quests. And so that is how I interpreted his comments. It would appear that I was wrong, in which case I strongly object, but I'm hoping that isn't the case.
     
  16. DavenRock

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    I enjoy a good fight, but when people stop coming after me and go after the weakest ones, I start to wonder. :)
     
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  17. Tahru

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    Isn't that the way of the wild? Only the strongest survive.

    Not that it has any relevance here.
     
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  18. Anendrue

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    The hat can be gained by going into the area in single player online.
     
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  19. Rufus D`Asperdi

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    Great for the Lion. For the Zebra... not so much.
    The Zebras on this virtual Savannah, unlike the real ones, have a choice to stay or leave. But to stay, they have to pay.
    Who's going to pay to be prey?
     
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  20. Tahru

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    I am a Sasquatch, most predators don't even know I exist. :cool:
     
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