(poll) Combat Deck System [UNOFFICIAL]

Every poll on this shows that the majority are for it about 60/40. Every poll comes up the same and they are still tweaking the system. There are always people who dig their feet in when we try something new.

Watch my video. Random it may be, but it is never ever unpredictable!

 

Deck system for the win.. I think most people's issue with it is that you actually have to adjust to it and learn how to use it to it's full potential.. Otherwise yeah, you'll have problems.

 

Exactly. We have to adjust to every new thing in life.

I was able to calmly talk while I did that video. I enjoyed blowing apart the wolves and spiders too. The combat system just facilitates combat. There are waves of explosive moments and then points where you aren't but it is far better than the warcraft model that has cooldowns.

 

the fact that they are tweaking it, i agree with ya there..but the method they are using, is to be applauded. when there is a high priority bug out there, they tend to get the right hammer for the job and knock it out quick. most teams i've seen, just put it on one of many lists of varying lengths and will get to it when they can. i've been dubbing it "ludicrous speed agile" to my dev friends. *grin*

i do both of those, actually. well not naked..but i do wear the merchants skirt as my silent protest till kilts are in-game. and sometimes no shirt either, cause i'm a lumberjack, and i'm ok! as for going to areas above your pay grade, i tend to do that as well, fairly often.

what i like about doing that, is i get to choose which levels of difficulty i put myself into, based on my own actions. at the same time, i do really like what they are doing with regards to 'raising the bar' for everyone. these types of games are pretty easy these days as gamers baseline skill levels rise with the times. only way to add more difficulty is to add more conflict, because that's what we as humans crave. - not saying they're going about that the perfect way, but they're trying, that's for certain.

over the months I've been here, i have recommended a few things i'd do from my perspective, to make my gaming experience better without handing me an easy button. a few of the ideas, they've taken to heart, and many more they discarded. such is the nature of development while not being a developer. the more info they have, the better decisions they can make.

actually, the entire point of developing a game, and improving any system, is to innovate where they can to stand out in the market place, modify the difficulty in tricksy ways so we the gamers can figure out the puzzle, AND make it more fun all the while. none of those points should ever be excluded from that methodology. right now, they are at the difficulty step, after that, they'll be focusing on the fun aspect. then they'll make more passes at it with the second and third steps for proper balance of the two, as they are the most important steps after all.

by this part of your post, i get the feeling you prefer to play finished and polished games with complete systems in them, without having the input on building the systems and making them great. everyone likes doing that..at least everyone i've met, some people like myself and bowen and isaiah and spoon also like to help make it great. then when we do play it when it is finished, we have a sense of pride and a sort of ownership on it. not everyone is that way, and i think that is what frustrates many players because they look at the moment as 'if this were a finished product, how would i feel' then focus on just that. unfortunately there's much more than just that aspect, as everything is interconnected. i'm just glad everyone here is excited enough to actually be on the forums in the first place, to help the devs get the context they need on how we feel, as opposed to just the bugs on something.

please do. always do. as many minute details as you can provide on why you felt the way you did when you did X, helps making this system the best it can be, so we can all praise it not for its potential, but for its results as well.2

 

I think the problem is that the people who hate the combat as it is are for the most part NOT people with kneejerk reactions. Most HAVE "adjusted" to the combat, given it time, and learned it... and still dislike it.

 

I think is is reasonably safe to conclude that most would agree there is much need for improvement as even the most avid proponents have said so. However, there are very few that actually used it that unconditionally dislike it. There will always be haters, that cannot be helped.

 

Really, ThurisazSheol, must you fall back on this pathetic fallacy? I was taught this as a classroom lesson in gradeschool! In a debate over theory between two competing camps, the fact that party A disagrees with party B is not evidence that party A is wrong, or doesn't want to debate. There IS room, nay NEED, on these forums for people who dislike what the devs have done. How would they improve the system if we all just praised what had been done so far without criticizing it's failings?

I have written more than one game myself, and am FULLY aware of the difficulties of making a game from scratch. I support Portalarium with my wallet and LB with my presence on these forums. I think 90% of what they've put out is in the right direction. I want combat to be WAY better, and I'm not afraid to say so. I've tried the random combat deck, I've gotten moderately used to it, I hate it, and I'd rather shove burrowing rodents up my behind than use it for any length of time. It irritates me so much that I've stopped playing the current release. Yes, I can lock my deck, AGAIN, and put up with the tedius focus penalties and immobile combat, AGAIN, only to have my progress wiped and replaced with... what? My focus is on R15, hoping that further consideration will reveal that maybe there's a middle ground between locked focus penalties and random draw's forcing you to glue your eyes to the action bar. I want to see a combat system that lets me forget it's there, so I can ENJOY fighting. I don't want to go somewhere because it's got good loot or good leveling, I want to go somewhere because it has lots of strong enemies that I want to smash! Right now, I don't enjoy smashing a single spider, it's just boring.

 

That was me you quoted, not tahru. Yknow, for the record and all.

This time, however i will not be pulled off topic by wandering trolls without bridges an derail the subject further.

Please keep reading the post i made to you, above, and you will find that i applaud criticism for the systems that need work, but only when it is constructive criticism.

Lastly, as someone who has made a game from scratch as you claim, please provide some of the more technical of details on how you would fix thesystem in question.

Maybe dev to dev, it may inspire them to figure a way to make the current system amazing instead of mediocre as it is now. That is everyones goal, here anyway.

 

Thanks!

 

I APOLOGIZE, Tahru. I hit the quote button, trimmed to the paragraph I found offensive, and replied, only glancing up for the spelling on the name (which I got from the quote), and apparently the computer handed me a bum reference. Or perhaps I cleverly carved down to a subsection of your words that ThurisazSheol was quoting? Regardless, my gaff, I apologize.

That being said, I read the entire post. You included a section that wildly misrepresented my motives in a blatant and illogical stab at insulting me, and I responded to it. If you don't like fire, don't pour gasoline on yourself. You can avoid all those "troll attacks" by treating your fellow forumgoers as legitimate contributors who happen to not agree with you, instead of criticizing them for criticizing you.

As for providing technical specifications, I have been doing just that. I have little programming expertise, and really COULD CARE LESS about the programming, since A) Portalarium is doing a fine job on the code, and B) the programming, indeed the entire mileu, has no impact on what I care about or have to contribute.

The CONTENT on the other hand, the effects of various decisions regarding the use of magick, the balance of powers, and the effects of complicating the UI, that I have opinions about, and have commented on extensively. Over one thousand posts worth, in fact. I try to limit myself to commenting on the game design, except when being attacked for having done so. I will always respond rationally to random criticism, and with the ignore button to rampant trolling, because I believe that all that is needed for stupidity to conquer the Earth is for smart people to put up with it. So I personally do not put up with it. Nor do I embrace the idea that the world will improve if we all just get along, nor do I believe that standing up for what one believes is a bad thing.

 

quite right on port doing a damned good job, no doubt about that. their quality of code is pretty nice to see. now that your anger has been vented and focused, which was the goal in the first place - we can get to the meat and potatoes and back on target again. *grin*

ok, so for you it is the content you are concerned with. good to know, lets expand on that a bit.

when you say 'the effects of various decisions regarding the use of magick" - are you talking about using the laws of thermodynamics where you hurt yourself when shooting a fireball, cause..well..its hot, or maybe using gust pushes you in the opposite direction a bit too? cause that is kinda cool if they'd implement that type of feedback system. or are you talking about the effects on the living world when you damage a piece of landscape, and how it heals itself? or are you talking about something more personal like where your physical appearance chagnes based on the type of magick you use on a regular basis? - or all of the above? thats just one example of the questions i have on that, and i'll be honest, i think you and i, and quite a few others, could have some pretty decent conversations and debates on that..just not here as it is only a tie-in to the deck itself.

i dont' think they're focused on content as much right now because it is the baseline systems that they're needing to get into place, so they can flesh them out to prepare for the actual content they will be adding. that means, now is a GREAT time to start talking about it to get them the ideas. care to take this to another thread with me so we can help flesh some things out from our, obviously differing, perspectives?


----


back to topic, the deck system. is there a single detail that is just so horrid about the system itself that makes you hate it, or is it a big puzzle that just seems to be put together wrong, causing all sorts of wonky stuff to happen? please don't use the cop-out and say "the whole thing" or "just scrap it and start over".. or at least provide an alternative if you do, especially with the context of WHY it is a superior system over what currently exists.

personally, i think it is the latter. as i've said several times before, i think that combos should also be on the static side of the deck, but i think the risk for loss and the reward when successfully combo'ed, should both be greater, when using the "random" deck. kind of my version of what you say when you stated you are concerned with 'the balance of powers, and complicating the UI.'

i think the combat system as a whole needs to be a bit more..i don't know.. epic. it seems quite bland, if you ask me. i think a lot of that will change though, when the animations and graphics get the polish they need (probably after systems are finished, so they can get out of pre-alpha stage). i've always said i do not want to be able to fasceroll and win a fight, and for now thats exactly what i do with either static or 'random' subsystems, and that is boring.

as the decks stand right now, to me it feels more like i'm playing a tabletop game that takes the imagination away and just shows me the graphics instead. i can't put my finger on why, but i've gone back to playing skyrim recently for the combat because it is much more environmentally aware, albeit a closed offline system that doesn't have the combat lag and latency to deal with. the fact is, it is much more engaging than the deck systems we currently employ here.

off topic, but the more i think about it, the more i think integrating a use-skill system is just better for all other existing systems than goign with only a generic experience-bar-level-system.

 

@ThurisazSheol Honestly,
If you want to understand my opinions on these topics, read my past, present, and future posts. If you have suggestions to make, make them to Portalarium. I'm not going to debate the virtue of the theories you choose to ascribe to me.

As for focusing my anger, you have neither the capacity, nor the right. I suggest you consider the words your ego is urging you to use.