What is the line between PvP and Griefing?

Discussion in 'PvP Gameplay' started by Anendrue, Feb 9, 2015.

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  1. Anendrue

    Anendrue Avatar

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    I like the first two. Could you expound on the third? Doesn't the oracle do the same thing?
     
  2. Noctiflora

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    ROFL. I keep reading, and I just keep thinking "And this is the environment that some people think is perfectly alright to force non-pvp people into in order to get a collectible hat or other item like that, once we can no longer go into SPO in those areas." /boggle

    Since this thread is not about that issue, (although it's pertinent to it), it of course has all the comments about it being a pvp area, take your chances if you "choose" to enter, etc, etc.

    Just thought I'd point out that any discussion on the environment created in these pvp zones, (so this isn't really a de-rail), will have to also take non-pvp folks into consideration if they insist on forcing us into those areas.

    If you pvp folks want it so hard core and "untainted" by non-pvp considerations, I would think you all would support the idea of not putting non-pvp stuff in them. I can just see the forums on this after release if it doesn't change. lol.

    If they insist on putting stuff like that in there, then I would have to support the ideas of making things a whole lot more fair in there, and start adding some of my ideas of how those areas should be, which won't sit easy on the hard cores. :)
     
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  3. Drocis the Devious

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    I think it would be very interesting to find powerful artifacts in the game that would create a pop up message warning you that if you added the item to your inventory you would be immediately "open pvp". The reward would have to be great enough to out weigh the risk. It would also give players more reason to fight "I want that artifact".

    The artifacts might not be combat related at all. They might be something that helps you farm or craft or gives a town a bonus to something.
     
  4. Anendrue

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    Very nice, that would work well with a bounty system preventing hunters and hunted from dropping into you can't catch me mode.


    Except you do not have to PvP to get the reward, go in there in Single Player Online mode to obtain the tour guide.



    X
     
  5. Noctiflora

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    I'm talking about after release when you will not be able to enter those areas in SPO. See my first paragraph.

    ******
    edit: So to my mind, that makes those areas not pvp-only after all. They will be combo pvp/non-pvp and so *everyone* will have to be taken into consideration. Pvp and non-pvp folks alike.

    I don't think it's a far stretch to imagine this is not going to be something the pvps like any more than the non-pvps. lol
     
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  6. Anendrue

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    @ Noctiflora

    Oops missed your statement on after they remove the SPO capability.
     
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  7. Drocis the Devious

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    That's actually a very good point. The SPO alternative should be turned off as soon as possible because we'll need to have all input for proper testing.
     
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  8. Themo Lock

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    And THAT is the downside of what Envy is doing. People have turned off PvP flags, not going into PvP zones and are going to keep voting for NO content in the PvP zones. To the point where (like the above quote) people start referring to everybody who participates in PvP as "PvP folk" who don't do anything else and thinking we all gank'n'camp people. Multiple entry points isn't really the solution, multiple entry points will just get camped. It is a good start though.
     
  9. Mystic

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    If I don't have friends or they aren't online, I pick my battles wisely. If it's 3 vs 1, I simply try getting by if I need to using stealth or I simply wait it out. It's not about being "fair" really and more about being smarter than your enemy. If I was a merchant traveling alone 700 years ago, I was taking a huge risk of being overrun and outnumbered. Same thing here.
    If I know it's a battle I can't win, I'll avoid it until I have a chance.
     
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  10. Noctiflora

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    Yes but we're not talking about RL 700 years ago. We're talking about a game where people want to have fun. And in this case we are also talking about an area where non-pvp people will eventually be "required" to go in order to get certain rare or collectible items, or they will have to be satisfied with forever being the second class citizens in this game.

    That being the case, the word "fair" is absolutely pertinent in my opinion. Non-pvp people are ill equipped to deal with any of that, and should never be required to in a game that proclaims itself to be completely consensual pvp.
     
  11. The Hendoman

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    baron drocis had a good idea, asking an npc for help to even the odds to combat camping.

    asking pkgriefers to be responsible is an interesting concept. I think they should just make the game even more expensive to keep out the riff raff.

    this pk business might not be solved here. We as players are the test subjects in yet another game to add to the study years from now.
    The Hendoman
     
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  12. Mystic

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    There is where we differ in opinion. I don't believe they would be second class citizens at all. If anything, it would likely be only 2-3 rares available in those areas which could also be obtained by buying them from other players as I'm sure there will be a market for rares eventually. They would also play no part in the actual story of the game so they are a vanity item and nothing more which doesn't really take anything away from the overall gameplay apart from a desire to have everything in the game. If nothing else, this will entice some players who really really want all these things to step into danger a couple times but would not be necessary or required parts of playing the game.

    The bottom line is there has to, in my opinion, be some compromise for both play styles. It wouldn't be a big deal at all to have a couple of these items available to only be obtained through a PVP zone quest if there are purely cosmetic and they could still be obtainable through a player market for those who simply want to collect the item.

    Edit: Also I should mention that most of my time will be spent on my pure crafter. While I'll likely have a combat character, I'm much more interested in running a shop. I'll do most of my resource gathering in PVP areas though. There are many of us who enjoy the risk vs reward aspect of games. :)
     
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  13. rune_74

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    I'm not seeing what the PVP player is compromising. They can PVP anywhere they want, plus have unique areas designed exclusively for that play style. The PVE players seem to be the ones compromising.
     
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  14. Mystic

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    Having fully open PVP limited to very few locations is pretty compromising for people who enjoy it. As much as my resource gatherer doesn't like them, PKers are people too. :p
     
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  15. Tahru

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    We should have a PKer charity event to raise awareness of the needs of PKers, also known as sheep hearding.
     
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  16. Noctiflora

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    How do you define "fully open?" If you mean they can pvp as much as they want anywhere they want, then it's fully open. If you mean they can only attack people who also enjoy pvp and have flagged themselves such, and that they can't attack people who want nothing to do with it, then yeah I guess it's not fully open.

    I don't suppose the thought has occurred to any of those who want it that way, that they will never, ever have those sheep to attack anyway. Not going to happen. Not in any game, no matter what the rules. Because if the game is a free for all, those sheep will not be in the game and their only option will still only be to attack those who want to pvp. The only difference will be in the bottom line for the game company.

    So to call flagging a compromise is to ignore the reality of it.
     
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  17. Mystic

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    Correct. They have said since the beginning that they will never force players to enter PVP if they don't want to. They also said at the beginning there would be benefits to going into these areas such as the possibility of higher resource volume or special quests that might give a rare item or something for doing so.

    Also, there are quite a few games that have fully open PVP. Mortal and Darkfall are two that spring to mind right off the top of my head.
     
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  18. rune_74

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    I guess...but that's not really true every area is open PVP...other then you can't attack those not playing the same PVP as you. Seems like a win all for PVP players. I really don't care that a PKer won't get to kill me, it isn't my responsibility to be a target to appease his game style.

    Seems to me the game is no catering to the PVP crowd.
     
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  19. Noctiflora

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    Those games do not have people who want nothing to do with pvp. They wouldn't be there if they weren't willing. They are not the unwilling sheep that some keep pining for with visions of pre-trammel UO when players had nowhere else to go

    They will never have that again, anywhere
     
  20. Pamela Eldritch

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    Griefing/Pking/PvPing= who cares? It is consensual only so why is this an issue? No one has to go to an active PvP zone ever- if you find yourself in one in error you can leave. I cant think of a problem.
     
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