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No motivation for crafting w/o a house

Discussion in 'Release 15 Feedback' started by Caliya, Feb 28, 2015.

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  1. majoria70

    majoria70 Avatar

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    Yes so true G Din, I have had the concern for myself that I would miss the feeling of accomplishment from having to get the home and other achievements too. One thing I have to remind myself of is that this community/the forum community and the newcomers
    will not be the picture that new people will see at the time of launch. For those that purchase the game and were not here during the kickstarter days, they will be oblivious to all of this. It will just be a new game and they will dig in and like it or not. Hopefully
    they will love it as I have high expectations for a wonderful game, but I do hear what you are pointing to. Richard has commented regarding having inns with rooms like UO had. That would be great for those that are not interested in housing or for those
    that are working their way up to having a home. Also tents and campfires were mentioned for those who want to play a gypsy type of player. So at this point I'm not sure how it will all play out, just hanging in there to watch it unfold. Great points you
    make regarding the full towns, hopefully it will not be a deterrent to everyone because it is here as far as I can tell.:)
     
  2. G Din

    G Din Avatar

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    The Inns with rooms was my idea , over 8 months ago if u look up my previous threads.

    Here is the issue, I join the game late, get a guild together to build a town. But wait, there are already tons of towns established day 1. How ill I attract people to my town to compete , how will i draw people to my guild if I don't start with a town? etc. I hope you are right and it has no impact, but I fear its gonna turn people away.

    Accomplisment is a great word u use here. Probably one of the most important things got remember. If you start the game with housing and towns, that removes a goal ... that carrot on a stick. Some may not realize, but if they start with these things, they may be bored of the game in 6 months.
     
  3. G Din

    G Din Avatar

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    What I would propose is a 2nd server thats is open full loot pvp without any pre-paid housing or towns. A truly natural server. It would intersting to see the contrast between how both worlds would develop.

    What server would u choose? I'd choose the one where we all start with nothing and have to work towards and goals. Work towards establishing a guild or town naturally.
     
  4. majoria70

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    Yes I agree G Din I have had those questions also, so we can only hope that all of the other things the game will have to offer will make up for that. So since we have this already what more can we ask for is the question? And you
    had a great idea, I do remember that idea and so sorry I didn't remember who first made the suggestion. I'm sure you have more great ideas or previous ideas that need to be rehashed and bumped back to existence to save us;)
     
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  5. G Din

    G Din Avatar

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    I have the same issues with Star Citizen. Buying up all these great ships before the game is released. What will you play for if u already own 10 massive ships lol ? That game sells advantage as well. OH well, hope both games work out.
     
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  6. majoria70

    majoria70 Avatar

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    lol @ G Din well I don't think I'd want to see us so split up like that. I truly like a lot of people on the same server. Perhaps for another game.;)
     
  7. G Din

    G Din Avatar

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    It would be an interesting experiment / study :)
     
  8. SmokerKGB

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    To me a house isn't a big deal now that I have a Bank box, I find myself crafting at the pavilion more often (SPO) because I alway need to purchase something for crafting (coal, wax, salt, fat, chemicals)... The crafting system is getting really complex... I do wish the Banker in Owl's head was closer to the pavilion, like they are in the other cities...
     
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  9. Themo Lock

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    Pretty much nothing at all that you mention in that post describes how things are actually going to work.
     
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  10. G Din

    G Din Avatar

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    heh? how on earth can u have 4k likes?
     
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  11. Caliya

    Caliya Avatar

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    Elitist!? lol Who on earth is that?

    And, I just had to do it........

     
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  12. Themo Lock

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    It just happens when you make sense, also 2k of them are probably from Tahru.
     
  13. Spoon

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    G Din
    ???
    Why direct all of this vs me?

    ???
    Neither do you have to in SotA. Just spend time/effort and you will be fine. Everything is there - just like it was in UO.
    Player Housing, Guilds and Towns just makes it more convenient.
    But the comparison as if UO didn't have the same issues doesn't hold up though. Even early in UO you had a big advantage as a crafter if you were part of a guild, or later if you had housing. Same thing with organized neighborhoods.
    So it's similar to how it was in UO, you can get by on your own if you want to, it is just more convenient if you cooperate with people.
    I'm confused. All of this you can/will be able to do in SotA.
    Mining - check
    bank storage - check
    public forge - check
    I think it will be even easier in SotA to get this started due to the differences in skill systems. It took forever to get really good and set up such a business in UO.
    Why do you think that this strategy wouldn't work in SotA?
    Which will still be a valid approach.
    The kits are for field repair with diminishing returns, ie more kits needed over time etc. To truly repair something you will need to go to a crafter. This means that the crafter economy will get business twice, first from selling the kit, then from selling actual repair.
    It's just that those crafting skill trees aren't implemented yet.
    Nope. What I described was IF you want the conveniance without spending $ yourself. IF you don't want that, then you can do fine on your own, it will just take longer/more effort.
    Just like it was in UO.
    You buy more with gold. Just like in most new MMOs. It's a sink. If you intend to be a crafter you will easily make money to pay for more storage.
    (If this isn't about that, but really about the unfair extra storage for high tiers, then I completely agree with that point and I suggested a remedy to it at the time. However that doesn't invalidate the strategy nor the functionality).
    Again, I'm confused???
    Why we have Player Owned Towns at all was because of the experience from UO taught us that they were a pain in the rear for years to build and maintain. Ergo, the old UO people who actually worked to form those communities in UO requested a feature to reserve land for such community building and Portalarium listened to them.
    And people still have to work their buts off for those towns, they don't form/function by themselves. Just like in UO.

    It seems that you are angry/disappointed/frustrated over something, which I have sympathy for. I've ranted several times about things I dislike and my pet peeves.
    But it also seems that most of this post is misdirected/misunderstandings. Would be easier when you direct a rant versus someone if you seperated your issues with the post/poster from your issues with Portalarium's business model/design process. Otherwise you will get lots of kneejerk counter attack responses from people feeling attacked, when you are really frustrated about the crowdfunding business model.
     
  14. no_excuses_its_released

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    Thanks for illustrating my point so eloquently... ;-)

    It's like crazy people. The thing about crazy people is they don't know they're crazy. That's what makes them crazy.

    Same with elitists.
     
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  15. Spoon

    Spoon Avatar

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    o_O come again???

    Yes there are cliques within any game, especially MMO's. Hence why elite guilds as a concept are so popular in gaming. So there is bound to be elitist groups in SotA. But if you set the bar for such elitism as to include Majoria70 into that elitist club then you simply have a very different definition of elitist than the norm/dictionary. One which would include just about anyone.

    Meriam Webster
    Definition of ELITISM
    1: leadership or rule by an elite
    2: the selectivity of the elite; especially : snobbery <elitism in choosing new members>
    ELITIST
    3: consciousness of being or belonging to an elite

    dictionary.com
    adjective
    1. (of a person or class of persons) considered superior by others or by themselves, as in intellect, talent, power, wealth, or position in society:
    "elitist country clubbers who have theirs and don't care about anybody else."
    2. catering to or associated with an elitist class, its ideologies, or its institutions
    noun
    3. a person having, thought to have, or professing superior intellect or talent, power, wealth, or membership in the upper echelons of society
    4. a person who believes in the superiority of an elitist class.

    As a subset of that we have elitist gamers. We have all met them, or seen them, or been apart of them.
    But...
    An elitist gamer wouldn't tell anyone to friend them in the game.
    An elitist gamer wouldn't give their stuff freely to such new folks.
    An elitist gamer wouldn't help others become better than themselves.
    An elitist gamer wouldn't invite anyone into their clique.
    etc
    So if that is the baseline then we are all elitists, including you grimgryphon. Which would make the point moot.

    So you must have something else in mind?
    Is this something about pledge tier levels? As in, you think all who spent more than X dollars are part of the elite, regardless of what they do with those perks? Or is this something about being friendly and connecting? As in people admiring eachothers company since they are buddies and thus don't see eachothers faults?

    So please elaborate and give us some more details of this elitism that you see.
     
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  16. Katrina Bekers

    Katrina Bekers Localization Team

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    Maybe he meant etilist.

    I can get behind that.
     
  17. Drocis the Devious

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    Irony.
     
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  18. Lord Tachys al`Fahn

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    Right? *laughs*
     
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  19. Caliya

    Caliya Avatar

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    Never, in the more than year that I've been on this forum, has anyone ever called me an elitist. Or in real life. I typically rebel against elitists (just ask the people who argue with me in these forums lol). Ah well. Doesn't matter to me if a person wants to label others.

    Anyway, I think it's very cool how @Spoon is making a welcoming town. I can see how this could build a community.

    I can also see how @G din might think that system is no real option.

    I mean, in real life, if I wanted to move to a new city and someone told me I had to live with others in order to have conveniences, I'd think we'd gone back to poor immigrants moving to a new country. Y'know? Maybe it would be a great way to start out. But to remain that way? Who would want to invest in a game when they'll always be a poor beggar (essentially)? Housing will be limited if they continue on their original model.

    That is what I've always protested. It's not right to have for a game where resources should be virtually endless. If you want to shut people out, they really will not purchase the game, no matter how much community exists or includes them.
     
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  20. Spoon

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    While I understand the sentiment I completely disagree with the context.

    It used to be that we purchased computer games up front for a big lump sum of money. That meant a lot of people were completely shut out or had to resort to the illegal market not benefitting the further development of new games.

    Then in the infancy of online games we got the subscription model, again setting a very high fee but now shutting out a large part of gamers who couldn't afford it.

    Etc.

    But nowadays gaming has become much more accessible through micro transactions and pay for perks. This because the vast majority can play at a really ole cost or even free, whereas some of the player base pay much much much more.

    So if one disagrees with such business models of micro transactions or pay for perks, one is implicitly arguing for a more expensive and less accessible game.
    Personally I prefer games with pay for perks business model since they let more players of diverse wallets play the games.


    On top of that the indie trend has gone from niche games with a high fail rate to crowd funding.
    Without crowd funding or perks of value many games including SotA simply couldn't be funded since the big studios don't believe in the investment.
    SotA is one of the most successful crowd funders in its genre, and that is specifically tied to limited housing. 9% of backers represent 61% of funding. Those 9% are the limited housing tiers.
    Lots of that comes from people increasing their pledges over time.

    For me Port has so far been really good at balancing the perks compared to other games with a similar business model.
    But without that limited housing aspect filling in that sense of value in the pledge tiers we'd have half the funding for the game.
    Yes this makes some aspects of he game sorted into the haves and the have nots. But it also makes for a better end product, which will be accessible at a much lower price. $45 is nothing for a Buy-to-play multiplayer online game.

    This in turn will attract lots of players with no interest in housing which hasn't been through the journey of development and duscussions like these. To them it will be a 'natural' thing that owning a house is a very hard goal to reach. But you can still play and enjoy all other aspects of the game. Then if you are dedicated and a little lucky then one day...

    So to me it's the opposite. To be able to not exclude as many people you need to get the few to pay higher premium so that the many can get in at a lower premium. Then you will need to balance it so that the game becomes fun for all.
    Not to do that would exclude the real 'have nots'.

    Which brings me back to Lux. I purchased that and made those plans of inclusiveness specifically because I know what it is to be a 'have not', and now that I'm better off I want to be able to spend extra to be able to give other 'have nots' something which they normally couldn't.
     
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