The true cost of a single arrow is more than 67 gold pieces.

Right, from a PVE standpoint it's fine. From a PVP standpoint it's horrible (for both melee and ranged).

I tend to think in terms of PVP first on these subjects. What's often balanced for PVP is usually also balanced for PVE (but this doesn't work the other way around). I'd be totally happy with ANYTHING for PVE, if auto-attack was removed across the board for PVP.

 

I don't see why its "horrible" for PVP, but its no worse than melee is currently. I generally don't care about PVP at all.

 

PvE and PvP should have no individual bearing on the design for this. This is a fundamental property of combat. See my above post.

 

As the combat system matures it would be nice if it would take into effect, if I am parring and someone shoots and arrow then there is a chance that the arrow will be blocked, same with a shield could block the arrow or a spell. Making a shorter spell length for the distance spells would help, but most of the distance spells when cast the NPC is almost healed by the time you can cast another spell. I would like to see a level system within each spell group, bow, sword, etc. Having the glyphs are fine for specialties within each, but how much damage and if I miss should be on what level or how much training I have done instead of I decide to put all my points into something.

 

This would be great, as long as it was done well. The problem currently is that (most) direct damage spells are not powerful enough to end a conflict either.

So either spells and ranged combat need to be a lot more powerful, in which case there is no need for auto attack, or they need to have a standard damage similar to melee, in which case ammo is an unnecessary penalty.

 

I understand your post, Solstar. But I question the need for auto-attack in melee (for PVP). We have Parry and Riposte Skills, so why do we need auto-attack? It's not simulating any defensive moves, it's just automatically whacking whatever you target for random damage.

I agree that we should remove auto-attack for both PVE and PVP, but that's a very unpopular decision with the PVE crowd (as well as some people in the PVP crowd). The reason I focus on PVP is because the impact of auto-attack in PVP is so much greater. Right now it interrupts spells casting and archery - automatically which is horrible considering the latency and lucky timing involved in pvp. It also encourages people to use the biggest most damaging weapon they can find because 1 auto-attack with a large weapon is worth a lot more than several auto-attacks with a smaller weapon. There's also the issue of "best builds" that force players to use the same types of big weapons (without putting skill points into the actual combat tree) just to remain competitive with the PVP Jones.

That's why I've taken the stance that if we could just get rid of auto-attack on the pvp side, all of this would be much better.

 

That's not entirely true, Browncoat Jayon.

If you stack spells or skills you can do massive damage. Here I am at level 35 almost one shot killing another player with an aimed shot.



Some of the higher level players can 5 stack spells and do 300 points of damage in one cast.

So this really becomes a question of how do we want combat to work? Do we want death by 1000 cuts, one shot kills, or somewhere inbetween?

 

Stacking has been out of whack for a few releases, so I'm not considering that it is working as intended. It works the same in melee. When it gets tuned, and it will eventually, those massive damage hits will go away. Its also ridiculous to try to rely on stacking for reasonable damage with the card system.

 

I love the picture of the Ranger from the D&D cartoon, his facial expression is perfect. Questor the elf from Gauntlet 1985 is one of my favorite archers of all times, and he never runs out of arrows. Legolas also never runs out of arrows... oh wait...



Using a tower as a bridge is even more cool than unlimited arrows.

in any case unlimited arrows has worked in the past. Maybe today's market requires more realism. I don't know. It sure was nice playing the Elf in Gauntlet, and never running out of arrows, because all he had left was a little dagger... and what is that against the ghosts?

 

If a Bow doesn't use arrows then A sword doesn't break, spells don't need regs, etc. Thye HAVE to use arrows. How about a Quiver, alredy mentioned and very viable. DO NOT MAKE IT SO ARROWS ARE NOT NEEDED.

 

I recommend Gauntlet II on Steam. It's a fun game, and better than the original.

 

Bow needs arrows, this is a crafting game. Increase the yields when crafting arrows so you make more per ingrediant. When in doubt go back and play uo. You will find your answers there . Really let's not reinvent the wheel. Uo used stacks and later on quivers, go check it out it'll solve this issue and many others.

Edit: cough reagents.

 

Do they have auto-attack in UO?

 

Yea and I had no real issue with auto attack as long as everyone had it. Playing my archer it was required.

 

UO was nothing but auto-attack. So was U7. Except for magic.

 

I just watched a UO combat video. It was like a parody. I couldn't tell what was going on even if I stopped the video. Wow, at least SOTA combat don't confuse me when I watch it later.

 

Hrmm, combat has changed a lot since UO the auto attack was just some smal amount of damage you had to account for. I see so a more of a hybrid people will get use to the auto attack and be come efficient at using it and avoiding it.

There was a certain skill to maximizing the auto attack dancing in or out to land or avoid. Also timing them around spell casting.

 

I can see that same "skill" here in SOTA, but I don't like it. I think the "skill" is really more like understanding the way latency works, and trying to use twitch movements to get in more damage than your opponent can. I liken it to leading the dance instead of being led. The result for me is often doing NO damage to someone that I thought I was hitting the whole time. It's really frustrating because the game can show you one thing and in reality something else is happening (the logs will show that I'm getting destroyed and not really hitting anything).

I think auto-attack plays a huge part in that.

 

Archers will need auto attack when kiting pvp.

 

My argument would be that no one should be kiting, and games shouldn't be designed to support kiting.