PVP/PVE instances

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Aldo, Mar 11, 2015.

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  1. Ship One

    Ship One Avatar

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    Exactly Rune, if I wanted easy, I wouldn't have played EQ1 for 10 years and its EMU for another 4. And also Asheron's Call as well after that, SWG after that (Before the change) What keeps games around is the desire, the will, the addiction to get people to log in day after day and simply play them. Games of late have made the content, quests and monsters terribly easy to handle then toss in PVP into the mix as if this is going to be what the majority of people are after. After an easy, boring progression to max level I am not after just keeping a certain part of the population entertained by being a target for them. I'm already over it and moving on to something else. I am a social player. I thrive in groups and try to tackle difficult content. I do not thrive just soloing through most of the content (Rift) then relax, sit back and get me sum PVP kilz. And neither does the majority of the market right now either. Limited PVP, Arena PVP, has a place in most games. I guess we will just have to see how much they throw into those PVP zones that will affect end game crafting and content. If it's to much, can ya guess what will happen? I can.
     
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  2. Katrina Bekers

    Katrina Bekers Localization Team

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    Yes.

    It's absolutely evident how it shows the true nature of some bloodthirsty people whose only need is to compete and crush and humiliate others - often by fair means or foul.

    PVP brings out the worst of our nature.

    And the dreadest part of it is that we cling desperatedly to that hunger, go innominable distances to satisfy it, and ultimately like it.
     
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  3. Womby

    Womby Avatar

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    I think there is a fundamental misunderstanding here. Some PVP players seem to think that PVE players don't want to encounter them in the shardfalls because they are afraid. This is not true. Those PVE players likely as not have been massacred multiple times by the ten overpowered liches in Chillblain's Compendium of Pain and Suffering. Yet they keep going back. Why? Because it is an experience that they share with friends.
    No, they are not afraid. They are having an enjoyable shared social experience, despite being killed multiple times. What they don't like is forced social interaction with people who are antagonistic towards them. There are many reasons why various people will choose to avoid social conflict, and those reasons are often very deep seated. Those people will never engage in PVP.

    As to whether PVE players should have SPO access to PVP zones, I'm not that fussed. I'm happy to try and sneak in in multiplayer mode. However, I don't see the harm in allowing SPO access if resources are stripped. Doing otherwise seems like punishing players for not being able to stomach the psychology of PVP - something that in many cases they cannot change.
     
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  4. rune_74

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    What I find funny is you putting words into my mouth, telling me what I think. Your whole first paragraph is really an issue some of you face with regards to what is in your head and what is reality and completely unfounded. It's hard to have decent discussions with comments like these, interesting enough the people making comments like these are probably also 30 to 50.

    As for the mobile app thing, I didn't back that so no I wouldn't, why bring that up at all? Is that the best you have for shooting down following the kickstarter?
     
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  5. Rufus D`Asperdi

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    While I agree with the general sentiment of this post, Womby, I would like to point out another possibility; one more directly applicable to me that doesn't bring into question the mental well being of those affected.

    I play games for entertainment, and there are some PvP players that are overtly aggressive, abusive, and prone to the actions you site in your post. I simply do not find this entertaining. Quite the opposite in fact. I find it stressful. I play games as a surcease from stress, as I have enough of that in my real life. I simply will not pay for entertainment that adds to the stress I'm attempting to escape.

    Yes, I'm well aware that many if not most PvP positive players do Not fit the description above, however there are enough of them that I do not wish open myself to PvP and subject myself to the possibility of being selected as a target for abuse by those few that do. I simply do not find it to be fun.

    Still, as I've stated all along, and earlier in this selfsame thread, I fully support the inclusion of PvP in Shroud of the Avatar through Shardfall Scenes, World Wide PvP through the Blessing of the Oracle for those that choose to receive it, and Settlements Owners who choose the "Lawless" option and open up PvP in their scenes.
     
  6. TantX

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    I was stalked online for 5 years, sent death threats, my female friends and even my own mother were sexually harassed via instant messenger and email. The only time I've experienced such harassment in over 17 years of online gaming was from role-players who specifically refused to PvP and fought back against accepted, in-game mechanics by effectively skirting the line of the law and openly breaking the ToS. You know absolutely nothing of what you're talking about.

    Look at the absolute nonsense some people on these forums are saying with regards to PvP, like it's some insight into the dark recesses of the serial killer's mind. Give me a break.

    You said that. You literally just said that. Is there an ESL issue here? I'm not trying to be rude, but it reads like maybe there are some definitions or words that you aren't accurately grasping at this point. And you aren't the first: there's a knee-jerk reaction to PvP in a sandbox game spearheaded by the guy who brought us the revolutionary UO, who has talked about open PvP areas and looting. That reaction stems from people who have been beaten up in PvP games and never got better or lacked the humility to work with others. Yeah, it's a real challenge going down in the dungeon and beating up on the absolute dumbest AI on the planet (and with only $6 million funding this project, don't hold your breath that that's going to be ramped up - they can't afford it). Spare me.

    You said so yourself:
    Well, that was the game in the Kickstarter. That was the original "Ultimate RPG", a stone throw away from Farmville. If it could have changed so dramatically since its first conception to make it better, it can change further to make it even better.
     
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  7. TEK

    TEK Legend of the Hearth

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    That is simple. Your refusal to compete with other players means you will be missing out on the full game experience. You will still be able to enter the shardfall hex, you just won't have any of the rewards that come with the risk, when the game actually has risk. It is simple your choice to experience the full game or not.
     
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  8. Katrina Bekers

    Katrina Bekers Localization Team

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    Welcome to the Internet, Dewderonomy. Are you new here? Please, take a seat and enjoy the ride.

    As you experienced firsthand, PVP, and forced PVP in particular, can bring out the worst nature of human beings (as I said, incidentally). Don't be so naive to think that Player Versus Player means only Character Versus Character. That guy behind the monitor can be positively aggressive toward YOU and your world, even if he swears his avatar will never ever fight your avatar ingame. I wonder what you did to them, to reward such persistent harassment...
     
  9. TantX

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    Funny how PvPers supposedly bring out the worst in people, and when I refer to women being sexually harassed and morals being tossed aside by non-PvPers/role-players, you are unflinchingly nonchalant and sarcastic about this. Regardless of whether these things occurred on UO in the late '90s and early 2000s or today, most people would at least recognize that over-stepping lines and exhibiting horrible, anti-social behavior can come from anyone, which is what my point was to counter the short-sightedness of your statement that it's specifically PvP that brings out "the worst in people."

    Ironic someone as unphased by another's suffering as you is making commentary on morals and the "worst in people". Very ironic, indeed. Your moral compass is shaky.

    I double-clicked them in a video game and they saw greyscale. Rules of Engagement (RoE) in the community prevented looting, so they have arbitrary protections in place to where they lost nothing more than pride. Then again, maybe it's my glowing personality that pushed them over the edge.

    And yes, I'm well aware that PvP is player-versus-player. When you undercut the vendor mall next door to put them out of business and steal their customers, when you start drama in a guild that leads to its division or collapse, that's all PvP too, in my opinion. But these people signed up for PvP - they just didn't like losing. And at least a PvPer will step up and fight you on the field and not attack you through instant messenger when they lose.
     
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  10. Ship One

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    So, what I'd like is a choice to enter all contested zones and flag for PVP or not, similar to SWTOR. PVPers can attack others who want to engage in that, and crafters can gather mats without having to respawn over and over if they choose. If it works out that certain zones are ONLY PVP and these zones have mats/content required to advanced in crafting/content, it WILL force people to venture inside.

    Setting aside the off-topic bits about human nature, people who do not like PVP will be turned off by this where if I were making the game, I'd want to try not to lose that player base. I can appreciate that the PVPers might enjoy being an obstacle to less skilled people trying to farm for mats or complete content, if it drives people away from the game though, is it really worth it?
     
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  11. Katrina Bekers

    Katrina Bekers Localization Team

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    Exactly what I meant from the start.

    They pretended to be just "role-players", while, once that facade collapsed, they engaged in PVP far more (and far worse, in my shaky moral mindset) than you, because they kept fighting the player (you) behind the character (your doll who spanked their doll) beyond the boundaries of some imaginary binary battlefield. You calling them "role-players" is a bit delusional: they effectively out-PVP'ed you, by twistedly playing your own game beyond the rules you expected them to abide to.

    And that's what can ultimately bring people to act irrationally, "horribly anti-social" in your own words: to satisfy the hunger you talked about with fair means or foul, even literally assaulting the other player, regardless of the dice rolls toward their avatars.

    That's the very epitome of PVP, in my book.

    Not that I like it, mind you, but that's the nature of the beast. I'm sorry for the distress you had to endure. Usually, nobody wins with these escalations.
     
  12. TantX

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    I would argue it drives people together. This isn't conjecture; we have precedence that putting people in difficult situations creates wonderful scenarios and close relationships, both in gaming and elsewhere. People still look at UO fondly after almost twenty years, and not the post-Trammel days. Yes, the overall population grew after Trammel, but it peaked and then has died more and more every year. In contrast, freeshards have consistently been more populated than UO official servers after Trammel, particularly after AoS.

    People get turned away, yes, but there's longevity to be gained. The one thing the post-WoW world has proven time and time again is that people don't want theme parks. They don't want straight PvM with PvP on the side. WoW's strength is in the fact it's been around for so long it's hard to quit, or more importantly, hard to play another game that's so similar to it. Communities keep people rooted in a game. The issue here is that there are so many divisions and partitions in the game that divide players rather than force them to interact and overcome challenges together, against one another, and together against one another.

    If you have a problem with someone, put them on /block or just play SPO/FPO if you don't want to "deal" with the community. It won't be instant, but over time this will cause drifts. As I mentioned previously, entire communities aren't given the chance to exist if the keys to forming it never met because they played SPO and FPO with the friends they thought were "enough". Why bother with PvPers when you can FPO and just play with people you trust? Forget PvP, why play with anyone other than a handful of friends when so many people (like myself) can annoy or distress you? That might be handfuls of people at first, and then dozens, then hundreds. Before you know it the multi-player is scarce and it's primarily a single player game.

    And I don't think anyone here is seriously betting money on SotA succeeding on its single player merits alone.
     
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  13. TantX

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    [​IMG]

    They were role-players. They never PvP'd (in the strict sense of them fighting in game) and did not identify as PvPers. We're not trying to be existential here, Bekers. We're talking about the standard, MMO definition of PvP, although myself, I would say there are other forms of PvP. That line is drawn at attacking the player outside of the game, which is griefing. That's fine (I identify as a griefer), but not when it comes to ToS and legal violations; that's something else altogether.
     
  14. Katrina Bekers

    Katrina Bekers Localization Team

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    Ok, ok, I should have started by saying that my definition of PvP matches yours, but it's very far from the strict, standard MMO definition of it. My bad, whip me (if you can!). :p

    I guess that's what you get used to, when a good half of the PvP you face comes from OUTSIDE the game environment, in the metagame around it...

    I've been off-topic far too much. You're right. You won. I accept defeat and retreat, only to backstab you later, when you least expect it! :D
     
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  15. TantX

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    Hopefully they'll get Vanish and Stealth fixed so I can't see you from a mile away!

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Katrina Bekers

    Katrina Bekers Localization Team

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    If they fix Ranged as well, that'd be too late anyway! ;)
     
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  17. Turk Key

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    Exactly, however I am talking here about instancing. People have taken this thread off track by assuming that the issue is SPO play in PVP areas. My original post and all that follow are attempts to address the problem through the instancing mechanic. For example, a PVE instance in multiplayer mode which accesses the shardfall (resources at normal levels) would keep all non-flagged people from ever seeing flagged people and vice versa. I am proposing this as it would satisfy the PVE crowd as to accessing off limits map areas while satisfying the PVP crowd that their special area is reserved for them only with enhanced resources or rares. These folks would still have the enticement design, as the resources can still only be accessed by flagged people or their hirelings. PVE players may still be tempted to flag for resource gathering, as the design seems to be at the moment. However those who will never flag for the bait will still have access to the area albeit with normal resource availability.
     
  18. Smurfwizard

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    I still do not understand why there should be enhanced and rare resources only if you are PVP. I thought that this was to be based out of the original Ultima theme. I was hoping this would be like the original Ultima in that you went from town to town, dungeons to find different aspects to complete your quests. In that with the enhancement with modern day real world help from other players in game. Having different instance for PVP or PVE is fine as long as there is nothing special about each.
     
  19. Keira OFaolain

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    ok the more I think about this the more I believe you are truly on to something here. lets go ahead and create a instance for unflaged PvErs on a PvP map so that they may run around it and not worrie about having to fight... and since we are doing that creat a instance so that all folks Flaged for PvP may enter a dungon and not have to fight Monsters to get to the loot... after all I should have the choice if i want to PvE.... signed me up i'll back it.
     
  20. Turk Key

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    LOL. It was difficult enough sorting out the desires of PVP people, PVE people and now you want to add PVN people (Player verses Nothing)?
     
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