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Full loot PVP and stuff

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Chris, Mar 13, 2015.

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  1. Ristra

    Ristra Avatar

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    That leaves out one major key. Abundance does not equal items in the pack. The abundance can sit there all day and go untouched if PvP keeps getting in the way.

    The onus is on the Devs to get the PvP to control the access to the abundance.
     
  2. Deathblow

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    PvE will be summoned into such zones by greed, lets keep things elegant, please.
     
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  3. OoOo lollie oOOo

    OoOo lollie oOOo Avatar

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    The only way for the devs to "control" anything is through PVE - devs can't control PVP because its players - which are uncoded and flawed and random, not environment which is coded and controllable.

    It's a pointless task trying to control using PVP - players exploit, players abuse any loophole. Players will farm an area if they choose and simply not fight each other. Players will find a way to maximise their profits, every game you will see players farming PVP to turn a profit, breaking rules even where factions are hard-coded and they're supposed to be killing each other, but they instead do not and turn the system into something that benefits them.

    The resources need to be controlled through PVE, or there will be no control at all.
     
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  4. Sebastion

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    I think it would just come down to balance and a loop of sorts.

    Many people are saying the full loot pvp areas are going to be empty after some time.

    So You have resources in there that are a little better than non pvp zones.

    This cause some people to go in for the goods in the chance that no one will be there.

    Which in turn causes people to go in to get the people getting the goods. Yes this can be thought of as ganking or whatever. But this is a playstyle that is part of the full loot pvp experience. With Sota though players get to choose whether they want to go in the area or not.



    It would just have to be balanced with the idea that someone could get in and out of there without conflict a percentage of times. So the gains from being successful would be balanced out with the time lost on unsuccessful trips.
     
  5. OoOo lollie oOOo

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    They're not 'a little better" - they're a lot better. Abundant vs...not abundant. Which is the equivalent of sparse.

    [​IMG]
     
  6. Sebastion

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    This would completely take away the ability to choose pvp in the area. The same flaw that is in the suggestion to take pve out of pvp zones. It removes part of the game in that area and makes it less instead of more.
     
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  7. Sebastion

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    This is where the balance part comes in.
     
  8. OoOo lollie oOOo

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    The "balance" needs to be in keeping all resources of equal amounts in all areas, not in shoving all the goodies over to the PVP zones.

    There is no way to control PVP. You can only control PVE elements, which is the only way to control resource distribution.
     
  9. E n v y

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    Control over resources in a PvP area is exactly the same a PvE. You work of the basis that the nodes will be farmed and you tweak the maths accordingly. The only difference in the PvP area is that a group of players may decide to fight over the resources.....either way they have still been farmed and the items produced by the game. The decision to make certain resources more abundant in PvP areas is still very controllable and I don't accept the views that it will unduly unbalance the game.
     
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  10. OoOo lollie oOOo

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    Controlling distribution through PVE makes far more sense, in every way.

    Not only does it make sense, but it would appeal to the majority of players in this game. Right now we have an issue. The resources are effectively barred to PVE players, while being given freely and abundantly to those who are happy to define their game time by running around naked risking nothing and generally interfering in the gametime of other players.
     
  11. Sebastion

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    There is to some extent. They have control of how many nodes are in the area, their locations and yield. They would also have in game data of players success and failures to get averages from. Basically it would be like people where gambling and playing the odds. Sometimes they would win and sometimes they would lose.

    Again, It would just have to be balanced.
     
  12. OoOo lollie oOOo

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    They are just adding an abundance into the PVP areas and the opposite (sparse quantities) into the PVE areas.

    There is no balance in this.
     
  13. Rufus D`Asperdi

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    Lollie, you're engaging in hyperbole. Please quit. You're complaining about the balance of a system that has not yet been implemented.
     
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  14. OoOo lollie oOOo

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    I'm using the exact words that have been relayed to us. Abundant = resources in PVP zone.
     
  15. E n v y

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    So firstly no resources are 'barred' to any player. You may have to to harvest a few more nodes in the PvE area but that is all it means, it is a choice between gathering hassle free or gathering slightly more but accepting that there is an element of risk.

    Secondly, the idea that all PvPers are going to lay in wait is just ludicrous. Yes you may find that is the case at the moment due to that we are in an Alpha and not that many people (especially pvpers) play.....but once the game has launches and starts to mature you will see PvPers fighting each other first.

    Thirdly you will find many scenarios where the PvE players will go into the PvP zones. Some will do so during quiet times, some will go in as part of a guild with larger numbers, some will form pacts with other PvP players for protection when needed...........needless to say, PvE players will go there.

    Fourthly........PvP players will not be running around naked.

    And finally......you may consider open PvP areas as the 'armpit' of Novia, you may not like PvPers and how they choose to play 'their' game. However I can tell you of one thing you will never ever see in an open PvP area (and it isn't a PvEr).......a Bot.
     
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  16. OoOo lollie oOOo

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    Resources are barred psychologically to a pure PVE player, or any player who doesn't enjoy being full looted in a PVP zone - which by all accounts is easily a huge majority of MMO players.

    The resources need to be equally distributed through both PVE and PVP zones, so all types of players have equal access to resources. I would suggest adding some kind of QTE to mining a node to add in a more "skill-like" feeling to the equation, and so limiting the resources accumulated globally through a very controlled set of factors (who is able to best succeed at the QTE, regardless of playstyle).

    If resources are equivalent in both areas (neither PVP areas have "abundant" resources, nor PVE areas have "abundant" resources) then PVP players should be able to gain all the loot they need for any one play session through the resources that are in the area plus looting of players (player drops), same as a PVE player will loot resources in the area plus mob drops.
     
  17. Miracle Dragon

    Miracle Dragon Legend of the Hearth

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    I don't think this is what they said. I believe they said resources would be 'more abundant' in PVP areas, which infers resources are abundant in PVE areas too, just 'less abundant' than in PVP areas.

    In the end, of course this 'abundance' can be tweaked endlessly over time, hence balancing. I don't see any need to worry about this right now. Lets see how it works in-game first.
     
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  18. OoOo lollie oOOo

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    I think the time to talk about it is now.

    PVP zones alienate people.

    PVP zones with full loot alienate even more people. The majority of people will not be playing in these areas, come release and most certainly after the fall-off period that always follows a release.

    The amount of people running around in there will be minimal at best, all as naked as they can get away with so they lose nothing while gaining as much as possible. And most people will stay away from the areas. There will be minimal fighting even at the start of the game - keeping in mind people never play during an alpha when everything is throw away as they do once a game starts for real and it's all for keeps. People play much more recklessly during alphas - giving away things like property deeds and whatnot. Many might be charging in fearlessly now...but later the same people won't be seen anywhere near a full loot PVP zone. We won't even see how desolated and abandoned these areas will be for at least 1 and a half, maybe two years...the game is certainly not releasing until at least after November this year, and most likely even later.

    So in the end only a tiny amount of people will be hogging all the resources in the game, and gaining them very easily with little to no combat. It most certainly is an issue to discuss now. Before it just becomes "the way the game is done around here".
     
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  19. Miracle Dragon

    Miracle Dragon Legend of the Hearth

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    I'd like to add that according to the kickstarter, some of the most 'abundant' resource locations were supposed to be PvP areas that were periodic events, like after a meteor shower, or a volcanic eruption. These are scenes that are temporary, only up for a little while (perhaps until the resources are depleted) then gone until the next event. So if the worry is that they will sit around vacant, this is how it could be handled. How many scenes are live on the map can be balanced toward how much interest players are showing to play in them.
     
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  20. Rufus D`Asperdi

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    Sure... If you want to have a rational discussion rather than latching on to single words taken out of context, go immediately to the most extreme possibility implied by that word and scream shrilly about how the sky is falling based on an irrational construct.
     
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