Overland Map Feedback [Merged Thread]

I'm just happy I'm not creeping so slowly across the overhead map as we used to be, and I'm happy I can look all around now. The size of the objects on the overhead map doesn't bother me. It's not game breaking for me, it's not a major feature deal breaker. I'd rather them leave it as it is, and tweak it if they have problems, or feel the need to improve it as the game goes further. I don't feel the overhead map objects is something to nit pick over, but that's me. I just think time would be better spent on features such as combat improvements, crafting improvements, combat skills improvements, gathering improvements, farming, fishing, Eniko's framework for playing musical instruments, taming, dyes, ranged weapons and skills improvements, stealth, pvp, and the many other features that need to be in game before release, to make this a complete game.

 

Problem is that the overland map right now is a "skeleton", just like the single player mode. Should Portalarium stop working on the single player mode just because it is not done yet?
Remembering the first days of SotA the overland map was announced as more than just a means to travel. It was announced as an important gameplay factor just like crafting, combat, quests, story etc. one piece of the overall puzzle with much more to it than just travelling.
Portalarium chose to focus on other elements of the game first before working further in the overland map and the single player mode. This does not mean that what we see now of those system is even near to finished. So neglecting it would mean trying to finish a puzzle without having all of the pieces.
There are many players who are expecting the overland map to become the fun and important gameplay element of SotA it was announced to be.

 

some big changes to suggest instead of *just* ranting

zoom out a significant amount
get rid of the Avatar from the scenes that looks like a giant
instead of walking all around to make it move from tile to tile
only allow rotation of camera with a hot-key so the map is standardized to North-South view like we see on the maps eg. same style as Ultima 4/Ultima 7
consider ditching the walking around entirely and just use a nice Map (see my previous post) with selections to travel to (this is because I find the walking around so awful I think ditching it should be on the table)
get rid of other individual players seen running around (horrible immersion breaker)
get somebody who knows what they are doing to fix this design and stop adding things ad-hoc style

I hope after another 6 months they can get this playing much more like Ultima4/7 style - that is what I am looking for.

 

I agree with that. Still, the most recent camera improvements were a step forward.

 

They have to have the basic foundations of the game built in many situations before improving them. I'm confident they'll get everything in the game that was promised from Kickstarter. It just takes time and patience on our part. We can't have it all at once, every part is important. From the story driven single player mode to the mmo aspects of the game. I didn't mean to suggest they all weren't important, just that at this point of *Under Construction* the size of the overhead objects doesn't bother me. Like most games in the development cycle of the game, you have to build the framework first and then build upon and improve on them once in place. Much like building a house with a foundation, walls, plumbing, electrical wiring, and roof, making it a sound structure before putting in all the parts that make it a home.

 

I always wanted a paper map in game for the overland, because I always wanted the field of vision to be limited, and more limited in the dark, and so you couldn't see over mountains or through forests. I still want the overland to work like that, like it worked in the early Ultimas, U4, U5, etc.

I think its fine that the camera angle can change a bit, though I think it would be better if it were more restricted, so, for instance, you couldn't rotate all the way to a profile view, or you couldn't zoom in so much. Putting the overland display into a zoomed in / profile view just makes it feel silly.

 

Regarding the pacing on off-road terrain, I just think it needs to feel natural. When the slowdown feels artificial, I think thats when it appears tedious.

But, for instance, if your character is walking up a steep incline, slogging through water like in a swamp, slogging through the snow, or actually walking through trees, bushes, or brush, those are some natural places to slow down movement, just as they would be inside of a scene. So, in actual scenes, I still think it would be much nicer if when you walked through heavy bushes or lake reeds, it slowed down your character, and walking through marsh water would slow down your character. The same rules would just apply to the overland view.

Completely flat and barren grassland shouldn't necessarily be a slowdown compared to a road, but it should guarantee more encounters or other problems, I'd think.

 

• Still waiting on that water update
• One gripe I have with the map is the bright blue of the shadows everywhere. This effect is correct when it is used for distant objects to create a sense of depth (ie atmospheric scattering), but it immediately loses its effect when it is used uniformly across everything. I hope they will work more on the map lighting if this is a planned feature. Everything looks too stark and "candy" coloured (another reason why I loved the softer colour palette of the cloth map - it also helped that it looked like a MAP).

• As for being randomly ripped out of the map, is there a way to make the encounter a little more abstracted? Considering we already have "decks" of moves, why not double down on that concept and make it something like the old Quest for Glory combat encounters but with the SotA combat system. That way you don't have to go through a ridiculous amount of loading screens (I don't care how short they will be, it's still disruptive to gameplay). I'd rather jump into something more straightforward that's in a stylised perspective, than witnessing the greatest gameplay shoehorn in existence.

• Also while on the OM, it would be helpful to be able to pull out a cloth map of New Britannia so we can get our bearings. I found myself a bit lost at times. Why do we need a map for a map?
• Camera definitely needs work and should not be so free as to allow clipping with objects on the map. IT'S A MAP!
• Character movement should be reflective of the terrain. Texture mapping etc, MUST match up to that. As redfish says, there are parts where it feels artificial because of this disconnect. If they can't get this right then remove characters altogether. It is a map after all.....

Did I mention it's a map?

 

What would make it fun? What did they announce it would be? (do you have a link?)

 

So, you want technology from the mid-1980s (Ultima IV is from 1985).

When people have come to expect technology from the 21st century, games like Skyrim, where the overland map is purely for orientation, because the whole world is seamless and not instanced.

SotA is the opposite. It's not seamless. It's entirely instanced, then an overland map is thrown in, to not allow any sort of orientation whatsoever, but groping in the dark.

Doesn't make sense to me.

They have improved the overland map. It's better than only instances fading in and out of villages. But I don't really see a point to the overland map because it gives me no sense or orientation whatsoever.

 

What do you mean the overland map gives you no sense of orientation?

Do you not get a sense that Owl's Head is to the north, Kingsport to the east, Braemer to the south? That's what orientation is.

 

The short answer is yes.

But, honestly, we're not talking about old technology versus new technology, we're talking about a set of design choices. Portalarium chose to go with the design of a two-scale world before they even announced the Kickstarter campaign; that wasn't my choice. They chose to make travel take time, for there to be encounters along the way, things like travelling gypsy wagons, weather, a and other events. They also wanted there to be a kind of "fog of war" where you couldn't see roving encounters from a certain distance, so where you were positioned mattered in what you could see.

My view is that if they're already doing that, they should take it seriously and make it function like you'd expect it to, like a zoomed out, eagle eye version of the world. It shouldn't be a "map" in literal terms. They could always add a paper map in the game in addition to that, though, like they have paper maps for the towns.

 

Yeah there's still plenty of things they can do to make the overworld more dynamic. We'll get roving encounters soon and there's still other events they haven't yet implemented like contested resource scenes where a fragment of the moon falls on some random scene. I know I will be searching for this game's equivalent of the town of Dawn that will magically appear on the overworld during some astronomical event. Tons of possibilities here once they embrace the dual scale design and put in more gameplay elements that can only be possible because of it.

 

Have you seen the map in Skyrim? The Shroud map is nothing like it. It's not for orientation. You can't even see the next village or town when you exit Braemar, for example. You don't know that Kingsport is NE, or Owl's Head is north. You have to wander those directions until you stumble upon them.

Now, to be fair, many people really like that. They want an unexplored map. And that's perfect. But once you discover an area, it should show up on the map. In Shroud, it does not.

That is what's known as orientation. You have no bearings whatsoever when you enter the overland map. Bearings = orientation. In the beginning, there wasn't even a compass, so you didn't even know what direction you were headed. You can now toggle the compass, for those who don't want to know what direction they're going.

The Shroud team has done a really nice job on meeting the needs of a diverse population.

But, for my taste, the overland map is fairly useless.

 

In this day and age, who wants a paper map?

 

Cloth map, then

 

lol fair enough

So, a physical object to carry around. So you'd also have to bring it along with a laptop somewhere.

I mean, the option should be there for people to purchase if they want it. But what about those who don't want a physical object? And why do we have to rely on wiki's to see the actual layout of cities on a real map?

I don't like to have to rely on a wiki. Nor macro programs, or any extra stuff people attach to games.

Also, they may be trying to go retro making people walk everywhere, rather than fast transport. But I see no real sense in that.

 

Nah, Caliya, a physical map would be cool, but I'm comparing it to the town maps you can get in game, so I'm talking about an in-game map like those you can open.

 

The in-game maps we carry in our pack need work.

 

Neither the Ultima series nor UO had in-game "orientation" like you're talking about. You don't need a paper map either, because there's maps of Novia online.
http://sotawiki.net/sota/File:SotA-Novia.jpg