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Q3 2015 Schedule Update

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by DarkStarr, Jun 25, 2015.

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  1. Beaumaris

    Beaumaris Avatar

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    If a PVP player gets to stop and tax a PVE player, what is the converse situation that the PVE player gets to do to the PVP player?
     
  2. Pyq

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    Actually there is no reason not to also introduce PVE controll points. The task could be to defend a bridge or a gate from an onslaught of any kind of (PVE-)foe, e.g. a dragon, kobolds etc. This type of control would be needed to be maintained against periodical challenges by the previous owner.
    So the fee, or better way-tax is levied in exchange for successful combat. The traveller then had to pay for the safe passage. This was pretty common in medieval times.
     
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  3. pirAte gAmbit

    pirAte gAmbit Avatar

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    I would like to click Like multiple times for your post....

    I see many ppl praise UO to godlike status and than contradicting its very own priciples in next thread ... arent we all here to return to all those great base principles ... to feel defeated by the game and its overwhelming community time up to time?
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2015
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  4. Periwinkle Elodie

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    I appreciate everyone's views and am glad to have such a great community willing to discuss and share ideas.

    (edited because people are awesome!)
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2015
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  5. Drocis the Devious

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    That's a fair question. But I'd have to understand how the PVE player would enforce this tax since they can't PVP?

    If it's a PVE control point controlled by NPC's...great you just kill the NPC's and now you own the control point.

    But if it's a PVE control point owned by players...say what now? How do you take back control of the control point from people that don't fight?

    I'm all for PVE Control Points, but there has to be a mechanism that allows players to take it away from the current players (that are levying the tax) otherwise it's not really much of a control point.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2015
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  6. Pyq

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    The owner would be challenged by NPC's or Monsters at a certain interval (periodically but not on a defined schedule). This way it would be a reward for combat albeit not by looting defeated opponents on a constant basis, but rather by levying a tax. It can be lost to NPCs in a PVE and to PC in a PVP setting. Obviously PVE control points could not be taken by PC's by force, as that by definition would be PVP:rolleyes:. Both would probably revert to unclaimed by passage of time, just like deeds.
    A long story short, a control point is the reward for superior combat and strategy skills.
     
  7. Drocis the Devious

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    It seems to me the risk vs. reward is out of whack there.

    PVE can't have a free pass on risk, and the way you describe it, I feel that's what would happen.
     
  8. Pyq

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    true milord, no one should have a free pass.
    The solution would be down to scaling of the opponents, its AI and the interval of the onslaughts. And there is the question of the wining parameters, e.g. a timer, number of flags to be captured or number of foes to be slain. This can be done to pose a challenge IMO and is a matter of implementation not of principle.
     
  9. Ice Queen

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    The summer looks to be chocked full of good additions to the game, thanks for the update Darkstarr.

    As for the discussion of control points above. I fail to see how forcing people that are strictly pve into pvp controlled areas, is meaningful pvp. To me meaningful pvp has nothing to do with forcing pve players to play my way. A Pvp system should be meaningful enough on its own to draw in pvp players without having to drag pve people in for our enjoyment, to be griefed constantly. For me a good pvp system should have risk vs. reward that appeals to pvp players, not a crutch system that relies on griefing pve players.
     
  10. Drocis the Devious

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    I don't think I'm explaining myself well. Let me try again.

    If the control point is pvp - then it would require pvp to capture it.
    If the control point is pve- it would require pve to capture it.

    That's fine.

    But now that the control point is captured. A pvp control point can be taken away from the players using pvp. But the control point for PVE can not. That is where it becomes unfair and unbalanced.

    While the PVP players would need to defend themselves against other players. The PVE players would have a period of time where they would not have to defend themselves from anything (PVP or PVE). Therefore, I don't see why players going through the control point would (or should) need to pay them taxes. No risk, no reward.
     
  11. Pyq

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    I see your point. I think we had two different starting points. In the PVP you only are at risk when an opponent actually challenges you, which would not occur -in my imagination- 24/7, but in intervals. A way out, to level the playing field, would be that both would get a set grace period where the control point would not be able to be taken, e.g. a 48 hours truce. This would decrease the risk to all control point owners, hence the reward would have to be lowered. On the other hand this would largely mitigate the difference between the two types.
     
  12. Drocis the Devious

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    That seems like a reasonable way to bring us to a middle ground. Still I like solutions that encourage people that are neutral to pve and pvp to try both if given the opportunity. I would prefer control points that make people say "ok, I can participate in pvp or I can take the long way around." That seems like a fair choice to make based on risk vs. reward.

    But the reverse can not really be said to be true. I'll take the long way around rather than pay taxes. Especially when the PVP crowd would gladly take on the added risk - since that's who they are.

    It's kind of like the story of the scorpion and the frog. The frog agrees to take the scorpion across the river if in return it doesn't sting him. When they get halfway across the river the scorpion stings the frog and they both are doomed to drown. With its dying words the frog asks, "Why did you do that? Now we're both dead!" And the scorpion replies, "Because I'm a scorpion, that's what I do."

    The PVE control point is the frog. It doesn't understand the scorpion. PVE control points would need some kind of pvp option to go through them. In fact, I think that's how it should work. Even if a group of PVE players takes over a control point, there should always be a way to go through the control point without paying taxes if you're flagged pvp or you accept pvp in the control point. The frogs don't have a participate, but they can't stop pvp from happening either.
     
  13. mikeaw1101

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    Interesting idea... But hopefully those "control points" we've heard about won't end up as simply fighting off endlessly repetitive waves of mindless monsters for X amount of time, like a typical FPS mission scenario but with tolls. That would get boring pretty fast.

    For example, why are the monsters so interested in that location, and what's their motivation for being there? Why do players want it - bragging rights on a leader board, or a simple revenue stream (hope not)? How does restricting a choke point influence the overworld situation, and what happens to the map when players control it? Do you get access to a management menu, sort of like the castle/siege management the Lineage had? If so, who gets access? I know we're "alpha", but hopefully the Dev's will start teasing out more information like that eventually. Needs more spice.
     
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  14. Miracle Dragon

    Miracle Dragon Legend of the Hearth

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    A control point map 'could' have two paths leading through the mountains. The right path takes you through dangerous PvE territory, that can be cleared for a time, but if it hasn't been cleared is swarming with monsters of some type. The left path takes you into PvP territory. It could be empty, could be... It's your choice which direction you go, it's basically a hex with a PvP line splitting it in two. But if you take the PvP path, you're flagged PvP until you leave the hex..

    So both playtypes are always presented with both options everytime they enter.
     
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  15. Drake Aedus

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    *Yawn*

    Here we go with another 80 posts about PvP in a thread that was not originally about PvP...

    As far as I can tell, the highway men are already too good at highjacking the rest of the server community. ~grins~
     
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  16. mikeaw1101

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    Like it or not, PvP is a large part of the online gaming experience. :p
     
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  17. Periwinkle Elodie

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    As is PvE...
    However, my days of PvP are long over with. I've no interest in a game that would try to force it upon me.
     
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  18. pirAte gAmbit

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    Well it seems like an important topic for a lot of folks.

    The main question that stands at core of this discussion for me is, whether developers decide to make it open world living game where you take part in both pvp and pve as they are both part of the world, or whether they decide to separate those two parts of gamig experience like most of mmorpg does.

    The challenge here is to raise interrest in pve for PVPers and in pvp for PVEers ...

    For me personally pvp content separated from the rest of the game (in ways like you can pvp only pvp flagged folks only in selected zones under certain circumstances) would be a reason to loose interest in SotA completly. Hopefully this wont be the case as developers seem pretty creative.

    To make my self clear, I would not wish for "PVP choke points" on the map that would make your pass impossible without taking part in pvp or paying a toll. There should be more ways how to reach your desired point on the map of course, but crossing pvp controlled area and taking the challenge would be an option - that if you win would bring you some benefit, like make your trip faster, looting nice equipment/gold that would help finance your travels, ....
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2015
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  19. Mata

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    Thank you! :)
     
  20. Jordizzle

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    Just a small correction, certain areas are open PVP and you can kill people there whether they are flagged for PVP or not. These are areas like the Shardfalls and Vengeance. I know they have plans to make rarer resources spawn in the Shardfall areas so that will bring flagged and unflagged people to those areas, so that's at least one incentive to travel into those zones.
     
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